Sub-Sonic Loads Starting Point For Swift 325 grn A Frame

[The Earl o SAmmich]

Resurrecting this thread now that the Obsidian is getting close to getting out of jail. I have Lil Gun, Accurate 5744, VV110 and Norma 200. Have some VV 3n38, VV 3n37 or are those getting too hot? Shooting out of 10.5 inch barrel AR15 platform, 450 Bushy. Want to reload them to around < 1,000 fps at the muzzle. Any tips? If no one has a starting point I will interpolate from existing data to get me there.

[Texas Sheepdawg]

No one has killed your topic. It’s just that no one has responded yet.
Maybe you could rephrase your inquiry.
Nine members including myself have read your post. But I think they need
More information to answer your question.

[The Earl o SAmmich]

Resurrecting this thread. See top post with additional info.

[Hoot]

Resurrecting this thread. See top post with additional info.

I ran your four starting powders through Quickload and 35gr of Norma 200, due to its more bulky nature than the other three, modeled (=estimated) the closest to subsonic while maintaining an 80% case fill.

Going bang and delivering the bullet downrange, on target, is one challenge. Getting that combination to cycle an AR gas system is another challenge. I have zero experience with Norma 200, though I did give it a serious look 12 years ago, but could not find it anywhere, for supersonic loads. I also have zero experience with suppressors. The above mentioned load, while keeping that Swift 325 down near subsonic, winds up throwing 1/3 of your charge out the muzzle unburned. I can't imagine that's a good thing for a suppressor. I suspect that if you want to play the SBR, can, subsonic game, that you're going to have to use a lot heavier bullet than 325gr. Quickload's .452, jacketed bullet, selection only goes up to 325gr. I can't model bullets like those 395 sub-x bullets as they're too new to be in the Quickload library. Ditto on those heavy cast boolits.

Hoot

[The Earl o SAmmich]

Thanks Hoot. I was thinking the same thing about the Norma. A tad too slow. I have gobs of 3N38 and 3N37. You ever used buffers?

[Hoot]

Thanks Hoot. I was thinking the same thing about the Norma. A tad too slow. I have gobs of 3N38 and 3N37. You ever used buffers?

No, I've never used standard pistol caliber VV powder. I tried N110 early on in my 450b journey but was unimpressed. Still have the bottle of it. I do like N135 for 6mm BR using lighter bullets.

Hoot

[coyote wacker]

The best and only powder I will use is Trail Boss.....been using it for sub-sonic suppressed for many years it's quieter you use all the power so no flames shooting out of your suppressor case is very close to being full....its just the best powder for sub-sonic....
One thing to remember is the Swift 325 gr. will not expand very much if at all it a stout bullet designed for full velocities out of the 460 S&W its a tough bullet....you want to have bullets that expand look at bullets designed for the handgun that will expand at velocities 800-1000 fps anything designed for the 45 Colt should work....
Or try sub-sonic bullets made by Maker they have a 350 gr and a 425 gr bullets that work great....

[dantiff3]

The best and only powder I will use is Trail Boss.....been using it for sub-sonic suppressed for many years it's quieter you use all the power so no flames shooting out of your suppressor case is very close to being full....its just the best powder for sub-sonic....
One thing to remember is the Swift 325 gr. will not expand very much if at all it a stout bullet designed for full velocities out of the 460 S&W its a tough bullet....you want to have bullets that expand look at bullets designed for the handgun that will expand at velocities 800-1000 fps anything designed for the 45 Colt should work....
Or try sub-sonic bullets made by Maker they have a 350 gr and a 425 gr bullets that work great....

Very good info there. Has anyone been able to find Trail Boss? I've not seen it in at least two years. Production was to begin again in 2023 so i'm not sure how much longer it will take before we see it hit the shelves. I've been waiting to try it our myself in a few calibers. I'm sure it'll be at a premium price too when it does arrive!
Dan

[Hoot]

From the Accurate Shooter Forum:

5 minutes ago:

It's made here in Australia by Thales. Last batch produced was in 2020. That was about the same time that they stopped producing pistol powder here in Australia. Pistol Shooters haven't had access to pistol powder for years now and it is causing great problems. There was a very small batch of Lovex powders imported from the Czech republic last year and we are hoping that will grow into something bigger.

Last update from Thales on Trailboss was in April 2021 when they said it won't be produced in 2021 and there continues to be an active research and development project associated with its delivery.

That sounds to me like it won't be made here anymore. Hopefully some other manufacturer picks it up. Won't help us in Australia though as we won't be able to import it most likely.

Regards from Oz.

Hoot

[dantiff3]

Thanks for the inquiry Hoot. I had just seen the post over on Accurate Shooter this morning. That’s a damn shame! I have to wonder what all the folks that shoot cowboy action are going to do? Seen a lot of guys/gals on the cast boolits page used Trail Boss also. It was the only thing of its kind, from what I’ve seen. I surely hope someone can pick up where they have left off with production.
Dan