450Bushmaster.net

wildcatter wrote:You guys are in areas that interest me greatly. If 38,000psi is too high for pure lead, then at what pressures are CAST PERFORMANCE bullets at, when they advertise 3000+ fps or did I answer my own question, being pure lead?

Pure lead is very soft. I would say it is no good past about 20K + psi. Many of cast bullet manufacturers have very hard alloy. It is like 90+% lead plus some other metals to make the final material very hard - hard enough to push those bullets at the speeds/pressure you do with the jacketed stuff.

There are thousands of guys running .45 caliber WW boolits out of the modern 45/70s at 38,000 psi with excellent success, not to mention the .454 Casull, and the Lineboughs (sp?), which are pushing cast boolits at pressures near 60,000 psi. Pressure is only part of the equation, and alloy hardness is not a blanket answer to increasing velocities. Ductility has a lot to do with it and in some cases a "softer" alloy produces better results at higher velocities. If you're looking for an education in the making and use of cast projectiles go to:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

And just read for awhile.

We are not breaking new ground in pressure, case capacity or velocity here. We are breaking new ground in in the firearms platform, and we're in somewhat uncharted waters using a fairly big case with a small primer and hard to light ball powders. I wish I could get my hands on some CC! 450s

IMHO gas checks are definitely needed in the AR platforms, not so much due to the pressures involved, but to protect the base of the boolit as it passes the gas port. I've had pretty poor luck with all of the plain base boolits I've tried, from 200 grains through 450 grains, velocities from 1,000 fps to 2,500 fps. There is a small run of gas checked 210 grain molds being produced by NOE; a hollow point design based on a 230 grain RNFP I designed for the .45 acp some years ago. I'm looking forward to trying those out as well as some more syles in the 300 grain range.
BD

I don't argue with you, DB. And I am very familiar with the castboolits forum. By no means I consider myself anywhere near being an expert on casting boolits, but from my personal experience I can tell you that pure WW alloy could be tricky. I always got pretty bad results with 44 Mag, 454 Casull and the 444 Marlin using checked and even heat treated WW when loading them to the max (or near the max) with slow-burning powders like H110 and W296, which normally give you the highest pressure in the 44 and the 454. That’s all I wanted to say.
Shooting cast out of 450B gave me good results with the Lee's 300gr and also the Lee's 405gr .457 bullet. I sized both to .454" and I believe I used some moderate BlueDot loads to push the lead out. I do not have the datasheet with me, but I think the 405 grainer had the velocities similar to the 45-70 load out of the trap-door rifle.

Mad, what kind of velocities are you getting with the Lee 300 grainer? My goal is a 300 grain boolit at 1,900 to 2,000 fps with good accuracy. To date The best I've been able to do repeatably is 2 1/2" @ 100 yards, and it's consistant from 1,500 fps through 2,100 fps with LilGun and H110. I'm hoping for moa.
BD

I'll have to check my Shooter's Log book, but I can tell you it was nothing spectacular. I think I was using around 20gr or 25gr of BD for this load. The groups were OK. And then I ran out of the bullets. I have to cast some more so I can run some tests. I was hoping to actually go hunting with cast this season, but I think I'll just end up loading 300XTP magnums instead.
Once I get home I'll check my records and let you know.

Did you ever find it?

ojmjr wrote:Did you ever find it?

I actually did not get to record the results from shooting the 300 grainers. I shot 405's before and the gascheck from one of them actually cut the cable that connects the remote and the battery to the unit Sorry. No records. I fixed trhe cord, but with the hunting season going on I haven't gotten a chance to play with the bullets again. Actually was thinking of casting some tonight.

Lee C452-300-RF:

16" Bushmaster, Hornady brass, Rem 7 1/2" primers. COAL 2.167, (35.5 grainers were 2.145), About 50 deg. F

33 grains WC297: Average velocity 1768 fps, Standard Deviation 30.04
34 grains WC 297: AV 1813, SD 48.14
35 grains WC 297: AV 1839, SD 47.07
35.5 grains WC 297: AV 1924, SD 44.59

33 grains H110: AV 1866, SD 8.9
34 grains H110: AV 1932, SD 9.84

My first outing with 297. I used 296 to model it on quickload, and shot the two loads of H110 to have something to compare it to. Next trial will be 35 to 36 grains in tenth grain increments, using a stronger body crimp and a little shorter OAL.
The 297 started grouping at 35 grains, (2 1/2" @ 100 yards similar to other cast boolit designs I've tried). It's slower than 296 and significantly slower than H110, and much cooler burning than any other powder I've tried. I shot 40 rounds in about 30 minutes and the barrel never got more than warm. Much, much cooler than LilGun.

Guys,

I want to add this link here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=445

I want to add that I also am very confident in the scale I use. It is an RCBS ChargeMaster 1500 Powder Scale. I also use it for my 6.5 Grendel and I get 1/2" groups at 100 yards all the time. Also using 300gr XTPs gives me about 1.5" to 2" groups.

Anyway. JUst an FYI.