Beginner equipment question..

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Beginner equipment question..

Postby thatguy » Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:34 pm

Now that I own the 450B I want to be able to feed it on a regular basis - which means reloading.. I have been surfing the net researching/educating myself on various reloading kits but I have question - I also bought a DVD from RCBS showing you reloading basics..

Would you recommend a turret press for a beginner? What is the difference between a regular turret (single stage?? ) and a progressive turret press? The DVD showed a turret RCBS press that every time you pulled the handle the turret moved so the bullet went to the next position (utilzing all dies at the same time ultimately) - which i thought was overwhelming to a beginner..

BUT I 'thought' I read that some turret presses allowed you to have all the dies installed at the same time - but you only used one die at a time - which would be more appealing to me as a beginner

thanks

Brian
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Re: Beginner equipment question..

Postby NordicRX8 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:11 pm

Most people would recommend learning on a single stage or turret press to begin with but I'm not one of those people. :lol: I started with a progressive and haven't looked back. I figured, I'd end up with one anyway, might as well buy it up front. A progressive press is a multitaskers' reloading tool. As long as you understand what is happening at each station with each push or pull of the handle, I don't see why it would be daunting for a beginner. I picked it up very quickly and was cranking out quality assembled ammo. Beginners can load one case at a time and cycle the single cartridge around the stations until completion, rather than get one completed round with each pull/push of the lever if they choose to. My progressive can also be switched to manual indexing if I wanted to slow it down even further. If you're attentive like you're supposed to be while reloading, you'll be fine with a progressive. 8-)

If I hadn't jumped in with both feet immediately, I'd have definitely opted for a turret press.
The single stage turret presses allows the operator to have all the dies (3-5) installed and adjusted for the caliber in question. When you operate the ram, it (the case holder and case) raises into whichever die station is currently above it (rotating turret head).
On a progressive press, the shellplate and cases moves under the next station and several cases move up to their respective dies. Multiple cases being processed with one stroke.
A non turret single stage press, only has space for a single die. You must process all the cases the same way before changing the die and moving on to the next operation.
SO basically, your single stage turret press is somewhere between a progressive and a non turreted single stage press in terms of complexity. ;)
You're still going to need a good scale and bullet puller!
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Re: Beginner equipment question..

Postby BD1 » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:53 am

This depends a little on what kind of shooting you're doing. Trying to feed an IDPA habit of 600- 1,000 rounds of one cartridge per week = you need a progressive press. If you're loading a small number of rounds for a variety of cartridges, a single stage or turret better fills the bill. Either way it won't be long before you own both.

On a single stage you will typically perform the same operation to all of the cases at one time. Then you change the die and perform the second operation, change the die a perform the third, ect. This allows you to see the results of what you're doing on all of your cases for each operation, and you will see what the variations are between cases. The pace allows you to visually inspect each case, every time. And, anything that goes awry typically effects only one or two cases. Those are good things, specially when you are learning.

A progressive allows you to sit down after work and load a couple of hundred rounds in an hour without a lot of prep, trouble, or forthought. If you leave it set up for a single cartridge, you can keep yourself supplied as part of your daily routine. However, things that go awry can effect hundreds of rounds, and you may not know just when things went wrong, and it's possible to load a couple of hundred without even knowing that something is amiss. Common issues are cartridges with no powder, the occasional cartridge with a double charge, (very bad thing), bullet seating depths that got out of adjust, primers upside down, stuff like that.
To load a lot of ammo accurately and safely requires some knowledge of what you're doing and the ability to stay focused throughout.

Turret presses are in between. Depending on how you use them, they can allow you to load about half as many rounds per hour, or slow right down and load in a fashion similar to a single stage. Unfortunately, the turret design is more difficult to manufacture accurately, and not all of the turrets are created equally.

I currently own one older progressive which stays set up for .45 acp all the time, (and has been for 10 years). I also have an RCBS rock chucker which gets a lot of use and two turret presses, one for other pistol calibers and one that's primarily .223, 450B and 6.5x55.

My advise would be to buy the RCBS rock chucker "Master Kit" to start out. You'll need some other bits as well, but that kit will get you going just fine. Then, once you decide what you're going to be loading, and in what quantities, you'll know what will suit your further needs. You will always find a use for a single stage.

BD
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Re: Beginner equipment question..

Postby wildcatter » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:59 am

BD1 wrote:This depends a little on what kind of shooting you're doing. Trying to feed an IDPA habit of 600- 1,000 rounds of one cartridge per week = you need a progressive press. If you're loading a small number of rounds for a variety of cartridges, a single stage or turret better fills the bill. Either way it won't be long before you own both.

On a single stage you will typically perform the same operation to all of the cases at one time. Then you change the die and perform the second operation, change the die a perform the third, ect. This allows you to see the results of what you're doing on all of your cases for each operation, and you will see what the variations are between cases. The pace allows you to visually inspect each case, every time. And, anything that goes awry typically effects only one or two cases. Those are good things, specially when you are learning.

A progressive allows you to sit down after work and load a couple of hundred rounds in an hour without a lot of prep, trouble, or forthought. If you leave it set up for a single cartridge, you can keep yourself supplied as part of your daily routine. However, things that go awry can effect hundreds of rounds, and you may not know just when things went wrong, and it's possible to load a couple of hundred without even knowing that something is amiss. Common issues are cartridges with no powder, the occasional cartridge with a double charge, (very bad thing), bullet seating depths that got out of adjust, primers upside down, stuff like that.
To load a lot of ammo accurately and safely requires some knowledge of what you're doing and the ability to stay focused throughout.

Turret presses are in between. Depending on how you use them, they can allow you to load about half as many rounds per hour, or slow right down and load in a fashion similar to a single stage. Unfortunately, the turret design is more difficult to manufacture accurately, and not all of the turrets are created equally.

I currently own one older progressive which stays set up for .45 acp all the time, (and has been for 10 years). I also have an RCBS rock chucker which gets a lot of use and two turret presses, one for other pistol calibers and one that's primarily .223, 450B and 6.5x55.

My advise would be to buy the RCBS rock chucker "Master Kit" to start out. You'll need some other bits as well, but that kit will get you going just fine. Then, once you decide what you're going to be loading, and in what quantities, you'll know what will suit your further needs. You will always find a use for a single stage.

BD


10 million X (I know that ain't much in these Obama days), I'd be lost without my Rock Chucker and do way more loading with it.. But BD is right you'll end up owning all three, but when learning I totally agree with the BD, HEY, that rhymes..wink..
Safety First..t
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Re: Beginner equipment question..

Postby BD1 » Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:17 pm

Another thing to consider starting out is knowledge base. The .450B is a "new" cartridge, and to a certain extent we're making it up as we go. However, folks have been reloading metallic cased cartridges since the late 1800's and there's a lot of knowledge out there. Most all of the current data you'll need can be found on the net, but you can't REALLY trust the net, so checks and balances are in order. Buy a couple of used reloading manuals and read them. Read the tutorial in the front of one of the older Speer's, read Richard Lees book, the Lyman cast bullet reloading manual and Veral Smiths little blue book and you'll be a big jump ahead of most of the net wizards before you even start. If you can't find this stuff cheap, I'll lend you enough to get going. Pick a couple of cartridges you're familiar with and read six different manuals "page" on those particular cartridges. It'll open your eyes a bit.

I don't know where you live, or how old you are, but living near you is some old fart whose been at this a while and still has all is fingers and both eyes. Get to know him, even if he's not your "type". he'll have most of what you might need gathering dust in the corners of his basement, (and the corners of his mind). If he's really near the end of his run, ask his wife to let you in early to the yard sale. Don't fight over stuff if it's my wife's yard sale :)

You'll know you're hooked when Hatcher's notebook lives on your bedside table, and you consider "Unintended Consequences" a necessary novel and understand all of the firearms references.

This was everyday knowledge, as common as gardening information, 100 years ago. If we let it slide out of the mainstream consciousness, we have only ourselves to blame.
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Re: Beginner equipment question..

Postby gunnut » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:39 pm

Call Me "old school". I still think its best to become proficient at each stage of reloading before trying to do them all at once! It's best to start with a single stage press and work up to a progressive. You will want to have a single stage around for working up loads and on such things as 284 cases anyway. Progressives are great for loading your favorite rounds. I know some who have several dedicated ones. Go slow and learn good habits. Good luck, Play safe!
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Re: Beginner equipment question..

Postby thatguy » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:01 pm

Thanks for all the replies and education.. I was trying to safe myself money down the road by using a turret press as a single stage at the beginning.. Like i mentioned, as I watched the DVD with the guy using a progressive turret and I was confused by the 3 or 4 things going on at one time..

I think I will go with a single stage for now and when (if?) i need it move up

thanks

brian
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