Crimp & neck tension

[Siringo]

More or less the seed was planted for them to make this on a production run. Until that time -- we improvise.

[BD1]

It's a $25 job at any machine shop or gunsmith. It could also be done with a hacksaw, and 1/2" countersink and cleaned up with a file and flat stone. None of the parts are hardened, and none of the cuts complex. Probably a two hour project to do the first one, 20 minutes if you didn't reduce and bevel the crimp surface.
BD

[Al in Mi]

Today while traveling in WI, I stopped by LEE Precision. I talked to on of the managers about creating a factory crimp die for the 450B. They can make custom crimpers, but the backlog time is at least 6 months (he showed me all the files). LEE has doubled its production with new machines and personnel over that past year. I asked him to look up this site and Calguns to get an idea what we are trying to accomplish. He also suggested a "stab type" die that functions much like the side crimp. The stab type is used on some 45 ACP rounds and military ammo.

IF we all have a common crimp die made in a quantity of 25 or more, the cost would be $14.95 each.

I also suggested that they make dies, trimmers and such as a regular factory item. They were not up to speed on this round. As most in the firearms business -- they are plenty busy.

if you widened the slots in a 45-70 FCD, (and cut to the right oal length) could you get the same effect of a stab die?

Dam, I need to get one of these guns

[slash2]

Stab die? I'm not familiar with these, how do they work?

[pitted bore]

Slash2-

The very nice photo you posted above was also on the calguns thread.

I tried to read there how you put the cannelures into the bullet you show, but I could not find that information. Probably I'm simply overlooking it there.

Could you describe for this site your technique for applying those? Many thanks.
--Bob

[slash2]

Slash2-

The very nice photo you posted above was also on the calguns thread.

I tried to read there how you put the cannelures into the bullet you show, but I could not find that information. Probably I'm simply overlooking it there.

Could you describe for this site your technique for applying those? Many thanks.
--Bob

Hi Bob,

Those are Barnes bullets, they are solid copper and come with the cannelures.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/pistol/

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=324956

[Al in Mi]

Stab die? I'm not familiar with these, how do they work?

If I'm thinking right, I've seen factory and military ammo with 3-4 places around the case mouth where they were crimped into the cannuler of the bullet. This left 3-4 "ears" where the case mouth was still the same size, which would work good for cartridges headspacing off of it I'd think.

If you look at the top of a Lee FCD, it closes a full 360* around the case, I'm thinking if you made the slots wider, say 1/8", when the collet closes around the bullet, the slots wouldn't crimp the brass and leave those "ears" to headspace off of.

Then again, it's a decafe morning, and I don't think so well.

[pitted bore]

Hi Bob,

Those are Barnes bullets, they are solid copper and come with the cannelures.

slash2-
Thank you for the clarification.

A month ago I received some Barnes 160-grain 45 GAP bullets to try out, and they came without cannelures.

--Bob

[gunnut]

450B FCD, Easy to Make!
Step #1 Get the LEE 45-70 Factory crimp die.
Step #2 Take it to your local Gun Smith and have him cut .5" off the Die & colit.
Step #3 Adjust crimp height. I had him cut .05 off the colit to lower the crimp .05 from the case mouth.
Step #4 Done! Die about $15, Gun Smith $25 to $50, Depending on how hungy he is.

Caution! Start over on your loads! This crimp is Very effective!
All comments and Corrections on the numbers welcome.

[gunnut]

Here Ya go Wildcatter!

By the way -- during my range session today is made up some 45 gr. Lil'gun loads with a Hornady 230 gr. TC (encapsulated one). Ejected of fired cases was very weak, sometimes dumping the brass on the shooting bench and other times sending them out a couple of feet. I have sooting all the way down the case. Group size was more like a pattern. Could there be that much difference between the round nose and the TC? I don't think I was getting a good burn and 45 grs. is about all the case will hold. My OAL was 2.1 inches.

I repeat Gentlemen; most sooting usually is a function of not enough pressure. The question to ask, is why? Could be not enough powder, not enough bullet pull, or the powder burn rate is to slow, or the sum of all of these symptoms at the same time. Assuming everything else is safely reloaded to spec; these suggestions usually are the major culprits. Low pressures can cause the case not to seal in the chamber and can become so bad that the gases escaping down the sides of the case can cause the case to collapse from the side. I’ve never seen this in the 450, but it is always possible. A little sooting, at and around the case mouth is Normal and is seen in all rimless straight cases (45acp/9mm etc.). Using faster burning powders, ala, ‘lil gun/296 and others, usually keeps sooting to a minimum. AA1680, needs a stout crimp and allot of powder to seal properly, but then a little sooting can still be visible, but this should cause you no alarm and AA1680 has the additional benefit of driving the speeds up.

Something else about crimping vs. bullet creep, consider. Using a drill motor, I have chucked up the cutter of a hand held tubing cutter (every hardware store has them)and with a stone have nicely rounded off the sharp cutting edge. The cutter on the tubing cutter usually is held to the tool with a screw. Take the cutter out insert a longer screw; put a jam nut on the opposite side and you are now ready for the drill/lathe chuck. Any kind of stone will work; anything from one from the front yard or a chunk of cement, to something you buy from the hardware, just so long as it is on hard side. Now you have a nice little tool to roll a heavy crimp into the bullet at nearly any location you desire (Because we head space on the case mouth, you must stay well away from the case mouth. The crimp is best done towards the bullet base, but not on the base, bullet bases are critical to accuracy.) and is as good as any, so called standard roll crimp, something we cannot use at our case mouths. It will very slightly shorten the case length, so don’t get carried away. Keep the crimp fairly consistent, that is to say, location and pressure. Measure the final case length to see if you made it too short or have not put on enough crimp. Pull a couple of bullets and look to see if you have dented the bullet sides, you actually want this denting. This type of crimp is particularly useful when using solids. I put a groove into the solid at the spot I want to roll the crimp into, using this method. Lead based bullets do not need such a grove, as the crimp squeezes into the side of the bullet. Those long heavy bullets seem to thrive with this method of crimping, of course I still tapper crimp. After a little practice The Side Roll Crimp, as I am wont to call it, is easy to do and to keep somewhat consistent and accuracy is not adversely affected, even if you aren’t particularly consistent, yea even sometimes accuracy is made better.

Safety First…t

gunnut, I hope you don't mind that I fixed the quotes so that it's obvious what's happening in the conversation. - MudBug