.451 BULLETS???

[BigBore Newb]

I know the 450 uses .452 bullets, but would .451 bullets work? Would there be any accuracy problems?

[gunnut]

They work for me.But, I'm also using the side crimp for best results.

[pitted bore]

I know the 450 uses .452 bullets, but would .451 bullets work? Would there be any accuracy problems?

These are good questions, but the answer is made difficult because we can't know what are your definitions of "work" and "accuracy". An answer to both questions is therefore a definite, positive "maybe".

Suppose you were to take the Hornady 250=gr FTX .452 bullet developed for the 450B, and carefully swage some down to .451, and then load them identically. You probably would find little difference in performance between the .451 and .452 versions of the bullet.

A difficulty with a general answer to your question is that most commercial .451 bullets are designed and intended for different purposes than .452 bullets. For example, some .451 bullets are as light as 160 grains. These don't "work" very well in the 450B, but it's because of their weight, not because of their diameter. A 160-gr .452 bullet will have the same problems as a .451 in a 450B rfle.

The barrel of my 450B bolt rifle was intended for .451 bullets. The problems I've described with the .451 185-gr SWC bullets are not due to incompatability of the barrel with bullet diameter.

Perhaps if you were a little more specific about which .451 bullet you were thinking about using, we could be a little more helpful in our replies.

--Bob

[jwkeech]

Just sharing my thoughts I don’t intend to interfere with anyone’s conversation.
The only real issue in weight to diameter is the contact surface is lost by the shorter length to achieve the lighter weight. Kind of like a lose grip on a football. The better the grip the better the spiral, leads to better stabilization. Not to say we can ignore the difference in bullet diameter but it is a lesser problem than contact length in this case.

[BD1]

The following is my opinion, and one that not everyone agrees with.

Another set of complications with the lighter bullets is bearing length and throat. On a lighter bullet you'll typically have a smaller percentage of bearing length, (surface that contacts the bore and rifling), as this percentage decreases there is more of a tendency for the nose to set back, or "slump" as the bullets get's kicked in the rear upon ignition. Add that tendency to a generous throat, (.451 bullet in a .452 or .453 throat), and you increase the possibility of the bullet getting started down the barrel less than perfectly concentric to the bore.

I believe that one of the advantages of the FTX bullet is the plastic spire point. This weighs less than lead would, allowing you to drop that length from the percentage of bearing surface equation.
BD

[BigBore Newb]

Well, I am asking because I would like to shoot some 230 FMJs for plinking and as far as I can see they are sized .451. Also, I was looking on Barne's site, and it seems their heavy handgun bullets are .451 as well.

I'm not looking to shoot lightweight rounds, just the 230 fmj and some heavy duty pistol bullets designed for the 454 casull and such.

[wildcatter]

Well, I am asking because I would like to shoot some 230 FMJs for plinking and as far as I can see they are sized .451. Also, I was looking on Barne's site, and it seems their heavy handgun bullets are .451 as well.

I'm not looking to shoot lightweight rounds, just the 230 fmj and some heavy duty pistol bullets designed for the 454 casull and such.

Go ahead, .."shoot'em if ya got'em". I love'em and day loves me..wink.. Shooting reall dangerous stuff they are probably better than most. Some of these guys have varying experiences with the lighter bullets, guess I'm not to particular sometimes. I don't mind Minute-of-Grizzly, if the occasion calls for it and truly I've seen some of the best accuracy with the 230's. And days show-nuff cheap shoot'en stock. The 450 bushy std is .4515 +- .0005, and you can fudge that some, if, IF, you are careful..

[Al in Mi]

When the big light hits, those .451 bullets will obutrate to fill the bore.

Case in point, I measured some recovered 300gr XTP mags from my 45cal ML that I shoot sabotless, the barrel is a 14 twist Shilen .458 groove. They started life sized to .4516, and measured .4577 on the shank when recovered, with fully engraved rifling. Load was 56gr H4198 with a wool wad under the bullet.

[Al in Mi]

Speaking of the 230gr FMJ's, who makes the thickest and thinnest jacketed ones?

Just thinking, but at the speeds one can get in the 450B they might make a dandy hunting round.

[wildcatter]

Speaking of the 230gr FMJ's, who makes the thickest and thinnest jacketed ones?

Just thinking, but at the speeds one can get in the 450B they might make a dandy hunting round.

Well Al, for hunting, expansion isn't even much of a consideration at all really. Think of the 45cal slug as an expanded 30cal, except the expanded 30 cal
l really starts to slow down fast in flesh as it is expanding and creating all that increased drag and expanded bullets go in any direction after the initial hit (including even right back out the way they went in, yep I have a three inch scar on my cheek, a really great dueling type scar, but caused by a bullet that came right back at me, fired from a 45 Pro), and not necessarily through the vitals. Whereas the 45fmj's just keep on traveling through the tissue and the overall effect is far more trauma, with far more total tissue damage, over the length of a far deeper wound channel and in a straight line going through the tissue. I've not seen nor heard of any deflection in the body. Hence, why I love the flat point FMJ's, in my experience the flat points disrupt much more tissue than an expanded bullet does, provided the flat point does not expand and the bullet holds together. So, I read with great anticipation to the developments the guys are having here with hard cast, gas checked bullets, cheap and effective and the way some of these guys are going, we're going to get all the accuracy and reliability one could ever need.

FYI.. to the cast guys. I talked to a big cast bullet outfit a couples of years ago, they also plate them, about a 44 cal bullet (.429"), plated with enough material to than be swagged back to .4515" (now sporting a .023" jacket, which is tremendous, considering the the std jacket is 3-7 thou), making a flat point as tough as a solid, but in mass as cheap as lead bullets and at my pricing, passed along to our guys, really cheap. The idea was to effect everything I personally think works in the Hunting fields, not necessarily tremendous accuracy but really good accuracy, and we could drive them pretty fast too (I'm after 400+yd clean kills and I personally know this and even more yardage is realistic). If you guys come up with a bullet you like and works well, we can get these made on the cheap, if we buy by the ton. Bottom line here is you'd have to have a design you really like, because the start-up cost are fairly steep, but the production stuff is cheap, real cheap. Any thoughts?