Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

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Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

Postby wildcatter » Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:42 am

Was just recently asked if the groves of a BORE RUNNER type solid fills up with the excess material when we swag them to .451 and thus end the advantage of the groves in the side of the bullet reducing drag. Of course swaging any solid is slightly more problematic than a lead based bullet, but this is not the thesis here and in any event is only just a procedure to swag such bullets.

The short answer is no, the groves are not eliminated by this swaging.

Yes, there is excess material that enter the groves and is better seen under magnification. It is so slight and thin that during tests, no reduction in speed was possible to accurately measure, nor were pressures increased by the VERY SLIGHTLY filled in groves (the swaged material, under pressure, just flows to the bottom of the grove and in no-way hinders the internal ballistics). In all testing, the swaged bullet material in the groves was far less than the normal fouling a barrel's rifling will put into the same groves (this data from actual swaged recovered bullets).

Conclusions: Any concern of this type is totally unfounded by repeatable real world, in the field, science. There are other concerns in swaging these bullets and worrying about the groves isn't one of them. If you are a beginner reloader, you might better pass on doing any kind of swaging until you become comfortable in your safety procedures or reloading in general for that matter. Read, Read, Read, first and the many reloading manuals are a great source..

Post Script: This is in answer to a hate filled question, that came to me by someone that hates the fact that our cartridge isn't using a mere Pistol Bullet or should only use pistol bullets and assumably, the implications of our good work, threatens the existence of the other big bore AR's. I can't help the Hateful Winers (and that's what they are), the Flat Earth types, but I can say this.. .."The Earth does indeed go around the Sun and the 450 Bushmaster was the first, might be the last and is the best all around big bore semi-auto, ever in the history of Firearms" (Yeah I Know, they'll be back for more at that one).. "Swage This" indeed, there is work already done, right here on this board, by some serious gentlemen that makes this suggestion laughable, if it weren't so demeaning to their hard earned work, therefore I answered the questioned..
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Re: Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

Postby MudBug » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:32 am

Was this about the thread on ar15.com?

I ask because "Swage This" is the comment of one person in that thread.

Because I hadn't actually swaged any solids I went out and bought some Barnes 300 grn .458's just to try it since the only thing I have re-sized before this has been some 0.458 Sierra Pro Hunters.
Eric

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Re: Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

Postby Siringo » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:35 pm

Could you do it -- swage the barnes?
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Re: Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

Postby MudBug » Thu Dec 24, 2009 5:37 pm

Siringo wrote:Could you do it -- swage the barnes?



Haven't tried it yet. I bought the cheapest box I could find (still $1 a bullet) and I'll get around to it after Christmas.
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Re: Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

Postby Al in Mi » Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:29 am

You should be able to swage the bands down, but springback may be a issue.

Lehigh Bullets might be a option, pretty sure Dave would at least entertain the .451/.452 thought anyways.

http://www.lehighbullets.com/products.asp?cat=18

I have some heavywall dies like these in .002 steps I could push some thru if need help. I use them to size .458 bullets down for my sabotless muzzleloader.

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Re: Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

Postby wildcatter » Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:50 pm

MudBug wrote:Was this about the thread on ar15.com?

I ask because "Swage This" is the comment of one person in that thread.

Because I hadn't actually swaged any solids I went out and bought some Barnes 300 grn .458's just to try it since the only thing I have re-sized before this has been some 0.458 Sierra Pro Hunters.

I know not about your suggestion. My reply was from an email..
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Re: Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

Postby wildcatter » Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:57 pm

Al in Mi wrote:You should be able to swage the bands down, but spring back may be a issue.

Lehigh Bullets might be a option, pretty sure Dave would at least entertain the .451/.452 thought anyways.

http://www.lehighbullets.com/products.asp?cat=18

I have some heavywall dies like these in .002 steps I could push some thru if need help. I use them to size .458 bullets down for my sabotless muzzleloader.

[ http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/Al_in_Mi/DSC00616.jpg ]
[ http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/Al_in_Mi/DSC00617.jpg ]
[ http://i432.photobucket.com/albums/qq47/Al_in_Mi/DSC00618.jpg ]

Hey Al, as I'm out of town for awhile can you or someone else do a 458 bore runner to say 450 to allow for some spring back, finally ending up with about 451 to 452. There is some minor spring back, but the initial 450 swaging will be a good worst case and then if we could get a good visual report of the results with some really good pics..well.. you see what I'm getting at..
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Re: Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

Postby Al in Mi » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:05 am

Catter, point me to where I can get some and I'll give them a whirl.

Only thing I see from Barnes is a 330gr .458 they toute for the 458 IWBSBWIGU (I wanna be something big when I grow up) Socom :lol: sorry fellas, early morning here.
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Re: Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

Postby MudBug » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:25 am

Al in Mi wrote:Catter, point me to where I can get some and I'll give them a whirl.

Only thing I see from Barnes is a 330gr .458 they toute for the 458 IWBSBWIGU (I wanna be something big when I grow up) Socom :lol: sorry fellas, early morning here.



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Re: Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

Postby BD1 » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:03 am

Not to put too fine a point on it, but in the interest of clarity of discussion I'd like to address terminology.

As I understand it; in reducing the diameter of projectiles by pushing them through a smaller die we are "sizing" .458 bullets down to .452. "Swaging" is the process of crushing a slug and cup into a forming die to produce a bullet. The end product being larger in diameter than before it was swaged. So if anyone had a need to "swage this", it would be the .458 crowd, not us.
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