Swaging Bore Runner type 458 Solids

[MudBug]

Maybe were all a little confused -- this thread is mentioning 300 gr spitzers and 330 gr. banded. Which do you have? If you have the 330 gr. banded, then measure the bore riding portion (the area ahead of the driving bands to the nose -- it is straight). If it is the 300 gr spitzer (with the blue tip) then measuring in of no importance -- just try to size them.

Why don't we inquire if Barnes will make them for us to our .452 dimensions.

I think you are right, maybe I got the wrong kind since THIS is what I got. I guess I should have picked up some of the banded solids.

And yes we should ask them for some bullets, that's how the 458 crowd got a bullet made just for them.

[wildcatter]

I believe this is exactly what we need to do a swaging with pictures that define the possibilities..

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=444103

Problem is they are over $55 bucks with shipping, so who ever does this and you do not actually want them, I'll reimburse you when I get back to Michigan, this data is very important for all of us..

As with everything we've done to date, I have already done it myself, but what I'm looking for here, on 450Bushmster.net, is what some may call, "Independent Confirmation". So with that in mind, this is the very reason I encourage others to replicate the work, suggesting and coaching, thereby, keeping the Nay-Sayers at bay, as much as is possible, as if that is actually possible with so many blind Cry-Babies telling us we can't do it. BTW, this line of thought is what distinguishes you from the Flat-Earthers, you are not american'ts, as they are, you are the true American's, you see things and think WHY NOT, as opposed to those who have always told you, you can't do that, whatever "That" is. In the truest sense of our Forefathers, it is "You", here on this board, that are keeping the American Spirit alive and without all the incessant insultive whining, you dare to win..

[MudBug]

Actually the challenge seems to have both types in mind. Now I'm gonna post a link to the place I think this whole subject started. THe post is the 5th post down.

What I don't want to happen because of this link is some kind of caliber war. We are not in some kind of death challenge with the other bigbores.

Link to Thread at Arf

[wildcatter]

MB is exactly right, be careful and let us do our work and not get caught up in someone's ill conceived delusions..

[Siringo]

No cracks about my photography allowed!

I was bored today so -- I bought a box of Barnes 45-70 250 gr. TSX. These have a very large and deep hollow point. I resized a few of these using LEE cast bullet size dies. First ran then through a .454 die and then the .452. Used Imperial Sizing Wax. Effort was not as hard as I thought it would be -- in lines with others that I have done. The 325 gr. Hornady and 400 gr. Speer were the toughest.

Following are the dimensions:

45-70 Barnes Original Resized
Diameter .457" .451+"
Length .916" .925"
Groove Depth .444" .442"

In the photo below are two dummy cartridges. The shortest is 2.135". Bullet seated so case mouth is in the first groove. The longer cartridge is 2.22". Bullet is seated with the case mouth located at the top of the second groove. Chambers fine. How they shoot is up next.


Also pictured are the bullets. Original on the left and resized on the right.

Barnes 4570 250 gr.JPG (29.05 KiB) Viewed 16574 times

[wildcatter]

No cracks about my photography allowed!

I was bored today so -- I bought a box of Barnes 45-70 250 gr. TSX. These have a very large and deep hollow point. I resized a few of these using LEE cast bullet size dies. First ran then through a .454 die and then the .452. Used Imperial Sizing Wax. Effort was not as hard as I thought it would be -- in lines with others that I have done. The 325 gr. Hornady and 400 gr. Speer were the toughest.

Following are the dimensions:

45-70 Barnes Original Resized
Diameter .457" .451+"
Length .916" .925"
Groove Depth .444" .442"

In the photo below are two dummy cartridges. The shortest is 2.135". Bullet seated so case mouth is in the first groove. The longer cartridge is 2.22". Bullet is seated with the case mouth located at the top of the second groove. Chambers fine. How they shoot is up next.


Also pictured are the bullets. Original on the left and resized on the right.

Barnes 4570 250 gr.JPG

Way to go! Now tell us about the groves, as in, are they still there, be specific, include your observations and conclusions, can you get closer pics of the profile? And you other guys, keep up this work and try some of the other bore-runner types, the banded solids, made by barnes for the 458 socom in the 330 gr, might be a good next. But I'll bet Siringo has already pointed to the truth of the realities of this project and the work here will be very valuable for all off us..

[Siringo]

The groove are still there. During the sizing, the groove actually reduced in diameter by .002 inches. The telling will be the recovered fired bullets. The groove serve a purposed to reduce bore contact and reduce copper fouling. If my calcs are correct, the 450 bore measures .444, so we should be OK. How other bullets will behave may be different.

From what I read on another thread -- there was a group buy of Barnes bullets for the 458S and that prodded Barnes to make the 458S bullets. But according to the post, they have to make a run of 25K bullets and they were sold only in 500 paks. So --- has anyone seen or purchased 458S bullets?

[MudBug]

I'm curious where you got the .454 die, I haven't seen one.


Nevermind... Found one.

[MudBug]

OK, I finally ran some though my Lee resizing dies. The 0.454 first then the 0.452 (actually says 0.451 on the side).

Here are pics of a Barnes TSX 300 grn FB, and a Sierra Pro Hunter 300 grn.

On both an unaltered bullet is on the left and the re-sized bullet on the left

The Barnes TSX first. Note that there is no material pushed into the low areas of the bands.



And just because I had them here are a couple Sierra Pro Hunters. Note that there is no change in the cannelure.

[wildcatter]

Strike two for the mudder, strike one was siringo's work, our guys are hitting it out of the park, now what will strike three be and the death nail for the nay-sayers and their bug-a-boo about what we can and what we can't swag and make work.. There are some that think that the 452 can be bumped up to .458 and it can, but what a total nightmare. Bumpers, as we call them, squat down and split jackets in the die, look like warmed over grits coming out of the die, or the jackets will separate in flight causing a bluish puff as it explodes down range in the air (it's pretty cool to see but very dangerous, because they might just come apart in the barrel) and supposing you're happy with the one foot groups at fifty yards (best case scenario), assuming they get there in the first place, they'll come completely apart on contact with anything they hit, in other words.. Supposing by luck the bumped-up bullet made it to the target in the first place, but the results are Totally Unreliable and Not Predictable at all, especially if it's something that needs killing..

PS.. Hey mudder, how was the work? Was it difficult or hard to do, etc., give us the dirt..