What copper alloy for turning bullets?

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What copper alloy for turning bullets?

Postby slash2 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:46 pm

I was thinking about turning my own 250gr. to 300gr. wide flat nose solid copper bullets for fun, but I know absolutely nothing about making solid copper bullets. I can do the CAD and the turning but I don't know anything about which copper alloy is suitable. Hornady touts their "Gilding Metal", is that for real or just marketing hype? Anything else I should be aware of?
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Re: What copper alloy for turning bullets?

Postby Al in Mi » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:58 pm

thou not for the 450B yet ;) , I've turned bullets from 110 copper and 360 brass with no ill effects.

One problem with both, is weight to length of bullet.
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Re: What copper alloy for turning bullets?

Postby wildcatter » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:02 pm

Al in Mi wrote:thou not for the 450B yet ;) , I've turned bullets from 110 copper and 360 brass with no ill effects.

One problem with both, is weight to length of bullet.


Al is right about the 360 brass, I've no experience with 110 copper. The actual designation for the brass is as follows.. Free-Cutting Brass (UNS C36000). And is the weapon of choice for most solid bullet makers..

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Re: What copper alloy for turning bullets?

Postby Hoot » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:41 pm

Al in Mi wrote:thou not for the 450B yet ;) , I've turned bullets from 110 copper and 360 brass with no ill effects.

One problem with both, is weight to length of bullet.


Translation:

Lead weighs more than copper or brass. For the same weight in brass, say 300gr, it would be considerably longer than a jacketed lead core or solid lead bullet of the same weight. Ditto for all copper bullets. Look at Barnes solid copper bullets. They're always long. The problem is you have a magazine that only accommodates COLs up to about 2.29-2.30 without mods. If the bullets are longer, in order for them to fit into those mags, a lot of their length will have to be down in the case, taking away vital powder capacity. Now if you weren't hung up on weight as much, then there's some wiggle room. If you're chasing BC and wish to use a spire pointed brass bullet, you're going to sacrifice either weight or powder charge. Pick one. If you're making either a flat nose (Tim's favorite) or truncated flat nose, you can boost the weight because a cylinder has more volume than a cone and if you hit them with a flat nose .452 diameter bullet traveling fast, it'll put a serious hurt-down on them from hydraulic shock. Given collateral damage from such a shock, shot placement is key so that you don't trash too much meat. The obvious drawback from a flat nose bullet of less dense material the drag is going to shed velocity like a shuttle cock.

It is a performance equation composed of many variables, each needing careful consideration.

IMHO, if you're looking for action out past 150 yards, you're hard pressed to do better than the FTX family when you consider powder capacity, BC and very importantly, the fact that they still expand reliably at lower velocities when they hit their mark. The 225 FTX is designed for the .45 LC. Leaving the barrel at 2500 fps, it'll be down to about 1500 fps at 200 yards and that's about twice as fast than it leaves the barrel of the .45 LC. It'll expand just fine and still deliver over 1k ft/lbs of energy. Any further and it drops like a bowling ball. Sure a pointy, higher BC bullet will shoot flatter, but will it expand when it gets there? I suspect that's why Tim is so fond of more flat profiled bullets at higher weights. They just aren't going to expand, so you must benefit from the fact that they're already flattened before they get there. In the absence of velocity, frontal area is what equates to TKO value.

That's what I mean about tailoring your load for what you intend to do with it.

Tim's bobber just went down :wink:
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Re: What copper alloy for turning bullets?

Postby wildcatter » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:27 pm

LOL...That Hoot-Buster, has a firm grasp on the intricacies of the science..

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Re: What copper alloy for turning bullets?

Postby slash2 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:44 am

Thanks for the info guys, I knew I could count on you for the good intel.

I probably should have mentioned that I was thinking more of a handgun bullet, .454 Casull and .45 Colt, as opposed to our beloved 450-B. Something more for short range, low velocity, high impact penetration for piggies in lead free zones. The hollow points from Barnes are fine, but so much of the length is taken up by the huge tea cup hollow point, i figured you could get a heavier bullet for the same size by just filling in the hole with more copper. With the wide flat nose you get all of Tim's killing power and yet you'd still be able to eat right up to the hole.

I see Barnes makes all of their 45's .4505", I assume to account for the harder material, do you think I should add a groove or two as well like the Barnes 275gr?
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Re: What copper alloy for turning bullets?

Postby slash2 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:46 am

i just did a little quick CAD work, and if my math is correct, if you filled in the hollow point on the Barnes 225gr XPB it would be 299 grains.
And if seated in a 450 case it would still give you plenty of room for powder .

For what it's worth....
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Re: What copper alloy for turning bullets?

Postby wildcatter » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:02 pm

slash2 wrote:Thanks for the info guys, I knew I could count on you for the good intel.

I probably should have mentioned that I was thinking more of a handgun bullet, .454 Casull and .45 Colt, as opposed to our beloved 450-B. Something more for short range, low velocity, high impact penetration for piggies in lead free zones. The hollow points from Barnes are fine, but so much of the length is taken up by the huge tea cup hollow point, i figured you could get a heavier bullet for the same size by just filling in the hole with more copper. With the wide flat nose you get all of Tim's killing power and yet you'd still be able to eat right up to the hole.

I see Barnes makes all of their 45's .4505", I assume to account for the harder material, do you think I should add a groove or two as well like the Barnes 275gr?




Yup, put in as many grooves as is practical, or just make a boss at each end and nothing touches the center section, it'll cut down on the weight and dramatically drive the speeds up and the Hammer effect of those flat points, going faster the the speed of light, is going to shock you when you see how well they kill and you can use those bullets on the 450b to boot..

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Re: What copper alloy for turning bullets?

Postby BayouBob » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:02 pm

Hey guys, If I remember right somewhere in the solid copper/brass/bronze pistol bullet process you run into a little Democratic Party thing called "Cop Killer Bullets." The Barnes folks had to quit making their wonderful solid "Keith" style pistol bullets because of that bit of chicanery the dems. pulled. Better check the specifics of the law to avoid crossing the invisible line.
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Re: What copper alloy for turning bullets?

Postby wildcatter » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:05 pm

BayouBob wrote:Hey guys, If I remember right somewhere in the solid copper/brass/bronze pistol bullet process you run into a little Democratic Party thing called "Cop Killer Bullets." The Barnes folks had to quit making their wonderful solid "Keith" style pistol bullets because of that bit of chicanery the dems. pulled. Better check the specifics of the law to avoid crossing the invisible line.


Hey! That's right! Better check that out first..

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