Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

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Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Stealthshooter » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:20 pm

I was wondering if one of you guys would be willing to give a step by step on how to turn .284 brass into 450 brass?
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Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby wildcatter » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:12 pm

Stealthshooter wrote:I was wondering if one of you guys would be willing to give a step by step on how to turn .284 brass into 450 brass?


Ya gotta remind me, do you already reload and are you an experienced reloader? I need to know, so as to not be redundant in my response or disrespectful..

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Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Stealthshooter » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:20 pm

I've been reloading for about 18 years. Nothing you say will hurt my feelers and maybe it could help people new to reloading.

Thanks much!!
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Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Hoot » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:53 pm

The biggest turn-off to the .284 conversion is the wall thickness at the mouths. You have to buy a custom neck ream and either a motorized or hand crank turning device that holds them perfectly aligned. I have 50 .284 cases prepped up to the reaming point and never got around to buying the custom ream. I still intend to, maybe this coming winter. I tried fireformng, but it didn't work for me. The other issue is the rims and extractor groove. .284 brass is perfect on spec with the 450b, but Hornady makes theirs smaller and Bushmaster made their bolt to like the Hornady brass. So, I turned every stinking rim and extractor groove down to Hornady's spec. It was a real PITA. There is a great thread on this if you search it out.

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Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby BD1 » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:18 am

The inside neck reaming issue may be particular to some chambers. I use only .284 brass with jacketed .452 bullets and I've never needed to ream a piece. The only trouble I've had with these cases is using 400 grain and heavier boolits, or cast boolits sized .453. The original thread about cutting down .284 brass is linked below:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38
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Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby wildcatter » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:31 pm

BD1 wrote:The inside neck reaming issue may be particular to some chambers. I use only .284 brass with jacketed .452 bullets and I've never needed to ream a piece. The only trouble I've had with these cases is using 400 grain and heavier boolits, or cast boolits sized .453. The original thread about cutting down .284 brass is linked below:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38


I concur. The cure to thick brass is to get the pressures high enough to seal. This can be done several ways. I like my side crimp, it allows me to use and seal in the chamber very thick brass.

But the only real thing at that point you need to do, is just cut and trim to 1.700". Don't make them very much shorter, as they seem to shrink over many successive reloads. Same-same, for making 450 Bushmaster's from any of the other .284 based cartridges, like for instance the various 6.5x284's, of which there are many..

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Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Hoot » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:17 am

wildcatter wrote:...snip...
But the only real thing at that point you need to do, is just cut and trim to 1.700". Don't make them very much shorter, as they seem to shrink over many successive reloads...snip...

..t


oldmanjeffers experimented and came up with 1.703 or something. He was the only person I recall who had a chamber loose enough to tolerate the bulge enough to fireform them and he said after the initial fireforming the 1.703 was already down to 1.70. When I tried fireforming, it did not do anything for the wall issue. Somewhere, I have a post with a graphic comparing wall thickness from the .284 case and a new Hornady case. I'm not going to re-type that thread, but it's worth searching for. Unless you want every bullet squeezed narrower at the base, it will not fit in your chamber. Go ahead and buy some. Squeeze the harder brass case down on the softer bullet to fit it in your chamber, then pull the bullet and mic it. Bullets that are tapered towards the rear = less accurate.

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Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Siringo » Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:41 am

ALSO CAUTION -- The rim diameter is different too. 284 brass is .473 inches. 450 bushmaster is .470 inches. In addition, the rim "groove" diameter is larger. I think Hoot has the dimensions.

I had some serious wear marks on my extractor where it dragged across the locking lugs on the barrel extension. This was caused by the extractor pushed out further when grasping the 284 brass. During extraction, it is possible the extractor could break. Not all Bushmaster 450's will not that -- simply because of tolerance stacking, but beware of it. Mine will not work unless I turn the rim and groove down.

If I recall correctly, Old Man Jeffers broke his extractor because of it.

I simply came to the conclusion that it is too much work to make it worth while. The least expensive way to get re-loadable brass is to buy the factory ammo and shoot it. Just work through the numbers and you will see what it mean.
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Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby BD1 » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:26 am

I think this must be a sign of tolerance issues with the bushy extractor and bolt assembly, again because I don't experience this issue with my rifle. I don't "fireform" the .284 brass at all. I just cut it down, trim it, chamfer it, load it and go to the range. I've gotten a little slack on my record keeping after the first 500 rounds, but I must be somewhere near 1,000 rounds through this upper at this point, the majority of it using .284 brass, and I'm not having any issues loading the 225 or 250 grain FTXs in the Hornady brass, seated out to 2.250 or so. My upper is one of the earlier ones, I ordered it in 2008 from Cabelas. It's possible that the extractor dimensions are a little different on the more recent uppers.

It's my impression that the .284 brass doesn't shrink as much on resizing as the Hornady brass. I don't have any empirical evidence to support this, it's only that I've retired a bunch of Hornady brass for being less than 1.60, and so far none of the .284 brass has gotten that short. Not very scientific I know, but I treat .450B brass about like like .45 acp brass, I just keep shooting them until I loose them or they're too short to land the crimp effectively. Once I have a bunch of dirty brass I wash them and throw them all in the tumbler together. I've never had a split .450 case, and the primer pockets don't seem to get loose, so I see no reason to sort them by batch, or keep track of how many times they've been fired. This is a straight wall case that is run at pressure levels well below the yield strength of the brass, (unless maybe you're WC :))

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Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby wildcatter » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:17 pm

BD1 wrote:I think this must be a sign of tolerance issues with the bushy extractor and bolt assembly, again because I don't experience this issue with my rifle. I don't "fireform" the .284 brass at all. I just cut it down, trim it, chamfer it, load it and go to the range. I've gotten a little slack on my record keeping after the first 500 rounds, but I must be somewhere near 1,000 rounds through this upper at this point, the majority of it using .284 brass, and I'm not having any issues loading the 225 or 250 grain FTXs in the Hornady brass, seated out to 2.250 or so. My upper is one of the earlier ones, I ordered it in 2008 from Cabelas. It's possible that the extractor dimensions are a little different on the more recent uppers.

It's my impression that the .284 brass doesn't shrink as much on resizing as the Hornady brass. I don't have any empirical evidence to support this, it's only that I've retired a bunch of Hornady brass for being less than 1.60, and so far none of the .284 brass has gotten that short. Not very scientific I know, but I treat .450B brass about like like .45 acp brass, I just keep shooting them until I loose them or they're too short to land the crimp effectively. Once I have a bunch of dirty brass I wash them and throw them all in the tumbler together. I've never had a split .450 case, and the primer pockets don't seem to get loose, so I see no reason to sort them by batch, or keep track of how many times they've been fired. This is a straight wall case that is run at pressure levels well below the yield strength of the brass, (unless maybe you're WC :))

BD


I pretty much concur. I have several shop guns and a personal weapon, having never done more than just cut to size on the lathe, load'em then shoot'em.

Must be a tolerance thing, as BD has suggested. But those tighter spec guns, probably shoot more accurately than mine..

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