Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Talk about your 450b reloading experience, ask questions, etc...

Moderator: MudBug

Forum rules
Please try and keep it safe!

This information is the responsibility of the community, not the forum. 450bushmaster.net is not responsible if you blow yourselves up.

Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Stealthshooter » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:28 pm

Could I talk one of you guys into posting some pics comparing your 450 brass to your modded .284 brass?

Thanks much!!
Stealthshooter
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:50 pm

Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Hoot » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:07 am

Stealthshooter wrote:Could I talk one of you guys into posting some pics comparing your 450 brass to your modded .284 brass?

Thanks much!!


If you haven't already found these threads, here are three useful ones to read.

Case Reamers

Bulging 284 case

284 vs 450b case ID

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Stealthshooter » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:46 am

I had not found those yet. Thanks much for posting them. It's too bad everyone isn't getting the same results. It sure is easy to find .284 brass!
Stealthshooter
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:50 pm

Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Stealthshooter » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:22 pm

One more question. Is the brass you guys have been trying brand new or once fired? Just wondering if once fired would help with the issues any?
Stealthshooter
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:50 pm

Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby BD1 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:02 pm

The first couple hundred .284 cases I cut down were a mixed bag of used .284 and 6.5/284 The rest of my cases were made from new brass. No appreciable difference that I can see.
BD
BD1
 
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: Northern Maine, Working on the coast, but home is still Moosehead Lake.

Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Stealthshooter » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:38 pm

Would this be an easy solution to the problem? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=612219
Stealthshooter
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:50 pm

Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Hoot » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:21 pm

Stealthshooter wrote:Would this be an easy solution to the problem? http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=612219


Right idea, wrong size. First, you need to decide whether you ream before firing them for the first time, after firing them and before your resize, or after you resize. Also, the depth of the ream will depend upon what bullet length you are reaming for. The first few answers can be arrived at if by no other method than the opinions of those who have already done it successfully.

For me, the compelling question was, Without some kind of centering guide pin, how to make sure the ream is absolutely centered, repeatably for all the cases? I never answered that question and it's at that point I sit as I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on additional equipment to do it right the first time. My RCBS Trim Pro is great for case trimming, deburring and chamfering, but I would not trust the clamping system to keep each case in the same place and not let them wander throughout the process. I had planned on sizing the Forster reamer shank to fit in the Trim Pro, but I lack faith in the accuracy of the process.

Hoot

EDIT: My brain said Forster ream, but my fingers typed Wilson. Edited text to say Forster
Last edited by Hoot on Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Stealthshooter » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:47 pm

What size would you recommend? I bet the use of this case trimmer would make for pretty uniform results. http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=3 ... te_Trimmer
Stealthshooter
 
Posts: 508
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:50 pm

Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby Hoot » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:25 pm

Stealthshooter wrote:What size would you recommend? I bet the use of this case trimmer would make for pretty uniform results. http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pid=3 ... te_Trimmer


Yes, it sure looks secure. Whether the Forster reamer shanks fit it or not, I can not say though. Thank goodness you only have to do them once cause it looks like an entire evening job as you mount, ream and unmount each case. My intention was to have Forster make me a custom reamer, to use on newly cut-down, unsized brass. They cost a little more than an off the shelf standard size, but should last a long time. I believe Siringo may have some insight if he reads this, as he had one made. IIRC, it was .445 or .446 inches. There's actually a post on it somewhere. Perhaps my concern for controllability is unfounded and the reamer will track straight as long as you don't try to go too fast. I have no experience reaming or turning necks to fall back on, so it is uncharted territory for me. Now if you could accurately measure the ID of new brass, given that it's parallel at least when it's new, you could have Forster turn the first 1/8 inch of the reamer down to that diameter and then it would center itself ahead of the cut on the interior wall. I've heard that Forster is very flexible in making a custom reamer and possibly would do that for you. If I'm not busy tomorrow at work, I'll give them a call and ask. That would definitely make me find my wallet as I could use my Trim Pro then.

My problem is that long after some of my postings regarding case internal dimensions, I discovered my caliper internal jaws did not read the same as the external jaws. You'd really want to get that ID measured accurately before you pay Forster to make your reamer with a piloting tip. Unfortunately, I seem to recall that I already resized my new brass, so the internal walls will not be the same ID all the way down. I'd have to get some more new brass, cut one down, debur the mouth and remeasure the ID with the caliper, then check the caliper with my precision micrometer to feel good about the dimension. The local reloading shop sells loose .284 brass. Perhaps I will stop by after work and pick up a piece or two.

Lastly, but not least. This is all a lot of fussing to manufacture an alternative to just buying the Hornady brass. Don't forget the tedious process of narrowing the rims and extraction grooves. You don't want to brake your extractor claw. That took as long if not longer than chucking each case in a lock stud, spinning each of them them slowly in my drill press while I cut the .284 cases off to produce the 1.75 raw cases with a dremel and cut off disks. That was an evening job right there alone, but it produced the cleanest and consistent lot of brass. I then turned each one around, chucked it again in the press and while they spun slowly, I laid a file to the rims to take them down to .468 from .473. Then repeated the process, only using a fine oval needle file to do the extraction grooves.If Hornady made their brass to a little tighter standard, like all of them actually being 1.70 from the factory, we would not be having this discussion. The last box of 50 I bought varied from 1.692 to 1.70 and as we all know, they shrink with each shooting and resizing down to a point. While I'm wishing, why not wish big and wish I could get a box with all of them 1.75.Then measure the inside of my chamber precisely and trim them to that length minus .001. Then after a shrink or two, they would be at 1.70. I did once seat a .284 case, sized and trimmed to 1.703 and it still did not bottom out on the chamber lip, so I know Bushmaster cut mine longer than 1.70.

Believe me, if you have time to kill and want to peruse the archived calguns posts as well as the ones here, you will find a lot of discussion about using .284 brass. Like Tim once suggested, if the chamber was not chromed, I'd just have it opened up to use unmodded, cut back .284 brass, but then I'd have a unique gun and would probably have to have the barrel stamped so that if someone came into possession of it after I pass away, they did not try to use factory ammo in it.

I may have found a way around the goofy search filter suppressing common or short terms. At the end of the word, add an asterisk. IE instead of .284, try .284*. It seems to slip through then.

Hoot
In Theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In Practice, there is.
User avatar
Hoot
 
Posts: 5083
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:34 am
Location: Minnesota

Re: Turning .284 brass into 450 brass?

Postby BD1 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:23 pm

Well, yesterday I got back in my reloading room after a long absence caused by remodeling our kitchen. What to do but make a couple hundred hundred more .450B brass? I spent about two hours to cut down 300 .284 cases that I'd bought on line for 25 cents/each. I quit with 100 left to trim and chamfer. This sight will only let me post 4 pictures at a time these days, and 120KB is max? so this will take more than one post
BD
Attachments
IMG_4349.JPG
The chop saw set up to make .450Brass
IMG_4349.JPG (91.33 KiB) Viewed 13035 times
IMG_4350.JPG
A .284 case in a shellholder ready to cut off
IMG_4350.JPG (71.87 KiB) Viewed 13035 times
IMG_4351.JPG
Holding the case against the block with the shellholder controlling the depth
IMG_4351.JPG (79.49 KiB) Viewed 13035 times
IMG_4352.JPG
The neck sticks out, and is cut off
IMG_4352.JPG (76.11 KiB) Viewed 13035 times
BD1
 
Posts: 523
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: Northern Maine, Working on the coast, but home is still Moosehead Lake.

PreviousNext

Return to Reloading for the 450b

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 29 guests