Just Installed QuickLoad

[Hoot]

As the subject says, I dropped the dime and just installed it on a dedicated computer.

After correcting the case length error for the 450 Bushmaster and inputting the parameters for the Hornady FTX, it nailed the velocity for 38gr of Lil Gun almost spot on. Needless to say, I'm encouraged. Right out of the chute, it was intuitive to use, but then I knew a little about it from another enthusiast helping me work up loads for my .300 WSSM AR15 and what reading I did on it before spending a lot of my powder and bullet money I had been salting away. It'll be interesting to now go back through all my range notes and results to see how they correlate for the different bullets and powder combinations I've tried over the past year.

This is only day 1 with the program and I hope to get fluent ASAP to calculate some optimum starting data for the Barnes 200gr XPB bullets that are burning a hole in my pocket to try out. They already burned a hole in my wallet! Ouch!

Hoot

[wildcatter]

As the subject says, I dropped the dime and just installed it on a dedicated computer.

After correcting the case length error for the 450 Bushmaster and inputting the parameters for the Hornady FTX, it nailed the velocity for 38gr of Lil Gun almost spot on. Needless to say, I'm encouraged. Right out of the chute, it was intuitive to use, but then I knew a little about it from another enthusiast helping me work up loads for my .300 WSSM AR15 and what reading I did on it before spending a lot of my powder and bullet money I had been salting away. It'll be interesting to now go back through all my range notes and results to see how they correlate for the different bullets and powder combinations I've tried over the past year.

This is only day 1 with the program and I hope to get fluent ASAP to calculate some optimum starting data for the Barnes 200gr XPB bullets that are burning a hole in my pocket to try out. They already burned a hole in my wallet! Ouch!

Hoot

QL is a love hate thing for me. It usually does well on the velocities, but on straight wall cases, like ours, it runs as much as 20,000psi high, from the real world verifications. I find it indispensable for choosing powders and starting loads. You'll notice for the Heavy bullets, powders slower than lil-gun work best and the light bullets are needing faster powders, lil-gun being the middle of the road powder of choice. For instance, with 230grainers, lil-gun gives the highest speeds, but if I want to dramatically lower the pressures, then WW296/H110 is the recipe and using those, delivers only a 25-35fps deficit. But then again, using the slower powders has a concern for sooting and thus sealing, which can mean increased bolt thrust. Today I will be running a long run of 296 and 230's, at 2750fps average (with under 50,000psi), they are also shooting at 1 moa at 200yds and QL was a great aid to getting me there. So then, many things are to be considered and QL is a wonderful analytical tool. It is a great tool, just don't take everything it says as gospel..

..t

[Hoot]

Someone throw a bucket of cold water on me, I can't stop!

Metaphorically, I have this range logbook full of data and notes from last year, like some archeologist trying to decipher carvings on a tomb wall and getting closer. Then, a digger comes up to him with the Rosetta Stone and it all starts to make sense. The program allows you to visualize beyond a snapshot of a given load by running progressively narrower iterations.

I didn't look back to see who, but there's a member who has posted some impressive loads using Moly or HBN coated bullets. My findings WRT the 200gr bullets seems to indicate that indeed a lot of additional performance can be achieved with pressures that aren't way outside the recommended ceiling by using coated bullets. I haven't expanded that to the heavier bullets yet as right now, I'm just trying to figure out the load starting point for these 20 Barne$ bullets that doesn't waste too much time and more importantly, money. One benefit of the slicker bullets if in the area of filling the case as much as possible. Most of the powders we use leave gaps between the powder column and the base of the lighter bullets. That's not so good for efficient ignition. In the other calibers I reload for, it rarely fails that the more full the case, the better the results I get as long as I don't exceed some other parameter, namely pressure.

I respect Tim's experience that eclipses ours WRT this caliber and while he feels comfortable nipping at 50K PSI, I'm more comfortable staying down below the recommended 40K point. I don't have an unlimited supply of bolts, barrel extensions and brass.

Hoot

[wildcatter]

Someone throw a bucket of cold water on me, I can't stop!

Metaphorically, I have this range logbook full of data and notes from last year, like some archeologist trying to decipher carvings on a tomb wall and getting closer. Then, a digger comes up to him with the Rosetta Stone and it all starts to make sense. The program allows you to visualize beyond a snapshot of a given load by running progressively narrower iterations.

I didn't look back to see who, but there's a member who has posted some impressive loads using Moly or HBN coated bullets. My findings WRT the 200gr bullets seems to indicate that indeed a lot of additional performance can be achieved with pressures that aren't way outside the recommended ceiling by using coated bullets. I haven't expanded that to the heavier bullets yet as right now, I'm just trying to figure out the load starting point for these 20 Barne$ bullets that doesn't waste too much time and more importantly, money. One benefit of the slicker bullets if in the area of filling the case as much as possible. Most of the powders we use leave gaps between the powder column and the base of the lighter bullets. That's not so good for efficient ignition. In the other calibers I reload for, it rarely fails that the more full the case, the better the results I get as long as I don't exceed some other parameter, namely pressure.

I respect Tim's experience that eclipses ours WRT this caliber and while he feels comfortable nipping at 50K PSI, I'm more comfortable staying down below the recommended 40K point. I don't have an unlimited supply of bolts, barrel extensions and brass.

Hoot

At-Ah-Boy, keep'em safe and my 50k loads wont cycle the factory action anyways, the bolt just opens way too soon, using these loads. So for the rest of you guys heed Hoots advice and don't try'em at these pressures (50k) and stay under 40k pressures..

..t

[commander faschisto]

Hey Hoot...are you going to start talking nerdy to us now?

Stuff is on the way BTW.

[BD1]

Hi Hoot, I threw some cold water on ya in a PM Two things I'll put out here:

The QL load program only has a single set of parameters entered for the .450B, and those are the factory ammo parameters. I would expect it to match those exactly. It strayed pretty quickly when I went to heavier bullets, slower powders and large rifle primers.

In my experience the effect of moly varies widely between between cartridges and loads. It has been very beneficial to me when using long for caliber bullets at what would be pretty high pressures for the cartridge with slow powders. For 150 grainers in the .270WBY over RL25 and 77 and 80 grainers in the .223 over Varget, moly is all good. In the 6.5 x 55, 30-06, .308 and all the straight wall handgun cartridges I've tried, it had absolutely no effect at all.
BD

[Hoot]

Hey Hoot...are you going to start talking nerdy to us now?

Nah... QL is too dry to have fun writing at length about it. The actual events that transpire at the range and in the field are much better material to go on and on about.

Stuff is on the way BTW.

OMG! it arrived

Hoot

[commander faschisto]

Cool! I wasn't too sure about the OAL with the 275s due to lack of prior research, but I figured they should at least be checked out. Enjoy!

[Hoot]

Regarding BD1's concerns with QL and the 450b. Before the power outage from the severe weather we got this afternoon, I poured over my range data and notes from last year's many efforts with the FTX family of bullets. What i found is not outside the realm of understanding WRT this caliber. Namely, the more the case was closer to full of powder and mainly at charges representing 85% or more of available capacity, the closer QL was to spot on. From 80 to 85% fill, QL tends to predict 30-50 fps more velocity than I saw in practice, though when I included a Lee FCD crimp along with the taper crimp, it was again close to spot on.

Synopsis:

When QL was off from real data, it typically erred on the side of predicting more velocity than was achieved, but only up to about 50 fps. For sure, more neck tension in lighter charges or more fuller cases equaled more accurate QL predictions. That comes as no surprise considering we can probably all agree that we don't want the powder pooled in the bottom side half of the case. Factoring range temperature is also critical. My range notes always include ambient temperature at the time I'm shooting. Most spherical powders are temperature sensitive. Lil Gun is kind of in between spherical and finely chopped extruded. Also, COL as a reflection of seating depth, as a reflection of available case capacity must be accurately entered. You cant just accept 2.26 COL unless that is indeed what you always use. I typically seat the 200s and 225s shorter to catch the cannelure in the taper crimp for greater neck tension. The difference between 2.26 and 2.12 though physically small, causes a significant difference in chamber pressure and velocity. Makes sense though. Same explosion in a smaller area... The 250s, I seat as long as will fit in the magazine since they have no cannelure. Might as well get the ogive as close to the lands as possible. Usually 2.29 COL.

I haven't keyed in my grits experiments yet. Those kept the powder packed down at the primer end of the cases regardless of percentage of fill. I also haven't keyed in the 240 XTP Mags or the Magtech FMJs yet. I have lots of range data to go through yet.

Just some observations and conclusions from last year's work...

Hoot

[commander faschisto]

Wish I could remember where I saw this, but someone is successfully using a little bit of balled-up wool to take up the unused space in cartridges with less-than-full powder charges, much like your grits experiment (do you prefer regular or instant?). Seems to work well, and they said it combusts completely with no residue.

Now, where the heck did I read that? (First thing to go is your memory, and...danged if I can remember the second thing now...)