My first reloads with home made 285gr JFP

[Jailer]

I had a set of swaging dies made by a member on another forum a while back and finally got some bullets made for the 450. 285gr flat points made from 40 S&W brass. They turned out pretty nice. I think I may be able to go as heavy as 300gr with a little lead exposed at the tip.

Anyway, I figured I share my progress so far. I got a few made for load development and started loading. I'm starting at 32gr of LilGun with a COAL of 2.069. That seats the base of this bullet to the same depth as a factory 250gr round. I'm not even sure if these things will even shoot worth a damn but hey it will be a fun project either way. Hopefully some time in the next few days I'll make it to the range and test them out.

Now some pics.

First few bullets. Some are re formed HP's that didn't quite work out that's why they have a small hole in the center.



A comparison pic. From L to R; 200gr blems, 250gr FTX, 250gr HP, 285gr FP, 285gr notched FP.




A loaded round.



And a loaded round next to a factory round for comparison.

[Stealthshooter]

Man those look great please keep us informed as to how they shoot. I have been looking at swaging setups forever.....Would you mind snapping a few pics of your setup for me?

[Hoot]

Do you have a Hornady OAL Gauge and 450b case? I'd be interested in knowing at what COL they engage the lands. If you could load them .020 off the lands, have them still fit in the mag and still have enough bullet in the case to keep it reasonably aligned, that would be an interesting load to try. The theory being the closer you load them to, or actually into the lands, the greater the potential for accuracy. If you load them to the lands, slower powders would encounter sufficient start resistance to actually get cooking real good before they start down the barrel. Last year some of us did similar attempts with accuracy results sufficient for hunting close in, but their accuracy wasn't on par with the FTX bullets when you got further out.

They look like you poured molten lead into them, or did you swage around solid lead inserts? If you used molten lead, did you tin the cups before hand or use flux in an attempt to obtain a bonded core?

If you haven't already seen it, Here's a link to that thread started by Hawcer about 14 months ago. It's chocked full of good data.

I predict that wildcatter will love those flat points.

Hoot

[Jailer]

I don't have a Hornady OAL gauge. I guess I could load one long and then chamber it to see where it ends up. I did drop a loaded round into the chamber and it dropped right in and right back out so there is some room to play. With these being so much shorter than the factory loads I should have plenty of OAL and mag length to play with. I could always draw down some 45 brass for some heavier and longer bullets if I can't reach the lands with these.

I'd really like to try some heavier bullets and most likely some slower powders, but I'm still fairly new to reloading and not sure exactly where I'd go from here. I've been thinking about acquiring Quickload to at least get me in the ballpark so I can figure out a starting point but I'm not sure that's the best answer. Of course posting here is my main source for info since there are so many knowledgeable 450 reloaders here.

The rounds are bonded cores. I drilled a Lee 2 cavity 148 WC TL mold for a 215gr core. The cores are cast with dead soft lead. I bonded them by coating the inside of the case with paste soldering flux (very lightly) and melted the core in the case with a propane torch. They drew the center of the lead down when they cooled so it looks like they took the bond well. I won't know for sure until I recover some and examine and weigh them. The bonded cores are then run through a core seat die and then through a point form die to finish them. I'm going to build a fackler box to test the bond and expansion.

I figured a good heavy bullet with a flat nose would deliver a debilitating "hit" (think fluid shock wave) and offer good penetration. With the jackets of the 40 brass stretched thin in the forming process they should expand quite dramatically as well. I've got a few that are notched a bit so I'll see what expands and what doesn't once I get the fackler box built.

[Jailer]

Well, I made it to the range today. It was a bit windy and I shot off bags instead of my lead sled and my shoulder is feeling it.

Accuracy wasn't that great. I didn't go get my buddies chrono so I don't have any velocity measurements but I see no pressure signs at all. The cases are a bit sooty and the primers look great so just judging on that I have a bit to go.

Hoot, I did play around with seating depth in some empty cases tonight. The longest I could seat the bullet was 2.168 without it sticking in the rifling. Some would stick, some wouldn't. So I figure that's about the max length for the ogive on this bullet. So just judging on that then 2.148 should be the seating depth I should try correct? Any guesses as to how much more powder I should add to the charge to adjust for the reduced case volume by seating them longer?

[Hoot]

Well, I made it to the range today. It was a bit windy and I shot off bags instead of my lead sled and my shoulder is feeling it.

Accuracy wasn't that great. I didn't go get my buddies chrono so I don't have any velocity measurements but I see no pressure signs at all. The cases are a bit sooty and the primers look great so just judging on that I have a bit to go.

Hoot, I did play around with seating depth in some empty cases tonight. The longest I could seat the bullet was 2.168 without it sticking in the rifling. Some would stick, some wouldn't. So I figure that's about the max length for the ogive on this bullet. So just judging on that then 2.148 should be the seating depth I should try correct? Any guesses as to how much more powder I should add to the charge to adjust for the reduced case volume by seating them longer?

Actually, you meant increased case volume as you seat them longer. The greater concern is what happens if they are sitting right up against the lands. That usually results in higher chamber pressure at ignition, so most folks reduce the charge a little to accommodate that and work back up. Now having said that, if you are getting sooty cases, chances are you could use a little more pressure at the onset of ignition. So, considering that you're considering starting out .02 off the lands, you should be able to leave the charge where it already is. If you were running at the upper limits in terms of pressure signs, I'd say despite the increased case capacity, still drop back and re-develop the load. A chronograph is invaluable for interpreting the effects of different powder types and charge weights, though velocity does not translate to accuracy. It is directly proportional to resulting pressure. Rather than cause folks undue worry, lets say drop back 10% and give it a go though. Careful scrutiny of the spent cases should guide you as to whether to continue up or pull down the remaining loads. "You gotta break some eggs to make a good omelet." That having been said, don't be too disappointed if your homebrew bullets don't deliver the same accuracy as commercially produced ones. Those guys have a lot more in terms of engineering and hardware than we can afford. You should be able to come up with some loads that deliver reliable minute of deer at 50 yards, possibly a little further.

Hoot

[Jailer]

Oops, I did mean increase in case volume. Good thing you understand what I mean not what I say.

I'm not at all looking for match accuracy from these things and don't expect even close to factory ammo accuracy. If I can get minute of deer at around 75 to 100 yards I'll be happy. Where I'm hunting this year that will be about the longest shot I'll have. I know most guys would say to just use factory rounds but I just would really like the satisfaction of killing a deer with my own home made bullet.

I'll have to stop by and pick up my buddies chrono today before I go to the range. It's going to be a bit windy again today but it should still give me a decent idea of how they are shooting. And I'll be taking the lead sled with me today, my shoulder is killing me.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Texas Sheepdawg]

I want to see a water shot!

[Jailer]

Just got back from the range. Had worse results than before but this time I had a chrono to check velocity. Definitely something weird going on with these.

I started at 33.2gr of Lilgun and worked up to 34.1gr in .3gr increments. Still no pressure signs, but what was strange is the velocity stayed about the same across all the loads. Plus they all shot about 6 to 8 inches above point of aim and still with a couple random fliers. I tried 2 factory rounds and they both hit the bull and were 12 FPS apart in velocity. Velocities are listed below.

33.2
1916
1947
1938

33.5
1935
1958
1953

33.8
2011
1956
1979

34.1
1953
2010
1971

Any ideas what's going on with this? Maybe just crappy bullets that don't shoot worth a darn?

[Hoot]

Just got back from the range. Had worse results than before but this time I had a chrono to check velocity. Definitely something weird going on with these.

I started at 33.2gr of Lilgun and worked up to 34.1gr in .3gr increments. Still no pressure signs, but what was strange is the velocity stayed about the same across all the loads. Plus they all shot about 6 to 8 inches above point of aim and still with a couple random fliers. I tried 2 factory rounds and they both hit the bull and were 12 FPS apart in velocity. Velocities are listed below.

33.2
1916
1947
1938

33.5
1935
1958
1953

33.8
2011
1956
1979

34.1
1953
2010
1971

Any ideas what's going on with this? Maybe just crappy bullets that don't shoot worth a darn?

I plugged your values in QL. 296 isn't so power packed as to make more than that amount of velocity change per .4gr jumps with 285gr bullets. I usually jump in 1gr increments, depending upon how close I am to the max. My most accurate loads run SDs around 30-40. It's just the nature of the beast. By the time I can throw on enough neck tension to tighten up the SDs, then I've changed the bullet enough such that accuracy goes to hell. Faster powders will tighten it up sometimes. Was there a point where sooting stopped or is it still with you? If they all are sooting, lay on another couple mils of taper crimp and reshoot them again to see if it ups the velocity and drops the SD as a whole. IE, if your getting .476 on the mic (not caliper) at the very edge of the mouth, drop to .474. Also, with the taper crimp die set to the same spot in the press, make sure your crimp are the same for every loaded cartridge. Varying crimps due to those 40 S&W brass not being annealed to the same softness, will impact your SDs as well as your mental health. When I was dabbling in homebrews, I turned the bullet jacket case rims down a few mils less than the body of the case so that they weren't hanging onto the inside of the cartridge walls. Not that it helped. Mine still shot about 2-3 MOA anyway.

Hoot