185g AR 450 bushmaster

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185g AR 450 bushmaster

Postby BushBuster » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:29 pm

Hi guys I'm new to the forum but I have been reloading long enough to keep myself out of trouble?
I've been playing around with the 185g sierra jhp, and Lil' Gun but was wondering if you guys had any incite with any 185g loads. I'm not trying to get the fastest round but trying to push it out farther on the range with speeds over the 2200 mark. I found out that I would need a faster primer than the cci primer I'm using. I was able to get the right crimp on the round to stop the soot on the case I think if I can duplicate the round. Anyways the questions that I have are...

1. What are some of the primers do you guys think work the best.

2. What is the shortest OAL could I use to give me even more bullet to grab onto.

3. Does anyone recommend any other bullets that might work better?

3. Dose Lil' Gun burn better with higher grains in the cartridge. For example I found some unburned powder in my barrel at lower grains vs. Little to none at the highest grain loads with the same heavy crimp.

4. Has anyone used faster burning powders?

I'm sure there are other questions that I have but that's a few to get me farther down the road if anyone has any input I'm here to learn all I can. Ill post my findings once I have some worth posting all I have now are cases with some soot on some and none on others with no pressure signs, figured I should talk to some experts before I get to ahead of myself.
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Re: 185g AR 450 bushmaster

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:03 am

I just did a little quick reading through the forum and found a few posts on the subject of lighter bullets. Here ya go.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5025

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4961

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1520

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1191
-Texas Sheepdawg

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Re: 185g AR 450 bushmaster

Postby wildcatter » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:37 am

Hi BushBuster and welcome to the campfire. I think, without actually looking, that Tex has you fixed up. I myself can't remember if I have loaded to a shorter length than 2.000" OAL, but that length is just fine, if that helps. I'd bet even shorter is entirely possible and if you need shorter lengths, then go for it. I bet you wont be disappointed. 2200fps out of those 185's ought not to be more than a Walk-in-the-Park, in fact 2200fps, should yield very mild pressures, as a rule, using that bullet. Try 2400, I've gotten good results with it and the lighter bullets or even AA4100 or AA9, blue dot is a little fast but doable and is my powder of choice if you were at the north pole in winter, wrestling polar bears and wanting a guaranteed "Cold Temp" ignition. The best for Brisance, arguably, is the remmy 7 1/2 primer, but I've had great luck with all of the primers and have used your cci's the most, but have settled on standardizing my stash with the remmy's, especially with the slower powders, that need a little kick in the pants sometimes..

..t
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Re: 185g AR 450 bushmaster

Postby BushBuster » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:41 am

Thanks for the help guys ill let you know what I work up for loads.
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Re: 185g AR 450 bushmaster

Postby Hoot » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:18 am

Seconding what WC said. 2400 is a good choice for that weight. It lights off just fine with my CCI BR4s and is less fussy about neck tension.

Start here:

Sierra 185gr JHP
34gr 2400
CCI 400 or BR4
2.0 COL
Taper Crimp .476
That will start you off shy or at 2200 fps and in the safe zone. Work up in .5gr increments.

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Re: 185g AR 450 bushmaster

Postby BushBuster » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:28 am

do you think I should use my CCI SR magnum primers or stick to the 400.
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Re: 185g AR 450 bushmaster

Postby Hoot » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:54 pm

BushBuster wrote:do you think I should use my CCI SR magnum primers or stick to the 400.

That largely depends upon which powder you end up going with. With Lil Gun, I got better velocity and lower SDs with a hotter primer. After my initial work with 2400 and after a Siringo gave me some hotter primers to try, I've been using Reminton 7 1/2's ever since. So, to answer your question, if you got with 2400, those 400s will do just fine. With the slower choices, use the magnum primers or get something hotter like WSR, 7 1/2, even the 205M. It's funny in that in a few minutes, I'll be picking up a brick of 210Ms on the way home from work, for my incoming LAR-8 loads. I've never used the SR Magnums with this caliber, so I can't speak to them from experience.

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Re: 185g AR 450 bushmaster

Postby pitted bore » Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:57 pm

BushBuster wrote:Hi guys I'm new to the forum but I have been reloading long enough to keep myself out of trouble?
I've been playing around with the 185g sierra jhp, and Lil' Gun but was wondering if you guys had any incite with any 185g loads. I'm not trying to get the fastest round but trying to push it out farther on the range with speeds over the 2200 mark. I found out that I would need a faster primer than the cci primer I'm using. I was able to get the right crimp on the round to stop the soot on the case I think if I can duplicate the round. ...


BushBuster-
I'll echo Wildcatter's welcome.

I just wrote a really verbose reply to some questions another new poster had about 185-grain bullets. It could be helpful: Link to that thread .

My own work with the 185-grainers is covered in a multi-part saga. It may have some hints for you.

I'll comment on some of your specific questions. I hope some of the other forum members may comment where they think I'm being misleading.
BushBuster wrote:Anyways the questions that I have are...

1. What are some of the primers do you guys think work the best.

As the others have mentioned, with many of the powders for light bullets, you'll need to use a magnum primer. I'm currently using CCI No. 41 primers, which are a magnum small rifle primer with a cup that is supposed to be tougher than usual.

BushBuster wrote:2. What is the shortest OAL could I use to give me even more bullet to grab onto.

Because I haven't used the Sierra JHP 185 and don't have any on hand, I can't offer a specific measurement. The threads above show that I've shoved my 185's pretty far into the case. As long as it doesn't interfere with feeding, or cause compression of the powder, shorter may be better.

BushBuster wrote:3. Does anyone recommend any other bullets that might work better?

Sierra usually makes fine bullets, and I doubt the two 185's I've tried would be better. For the 450B, bullets closer to .452 are probably better in terms of better crimping and bore fit. If you can find a jacketed 185 that is larger in diameter than your Sierra then it might be marginally better.

BushBuster wrote:3. Does Lil' Gun burn better with higher grains in the cartridge. For example I found some unburned powder in my barrel at lower grains vs. Little to none at the highest grain loads with the same heavy crimp.

Maybe. Like many ball powders, Lil'Gun does not respond well to load reduction. Some amount of powder is required to build up sufficient pressure to produce a progressive, complete ignition. Unburned powder granules are a sign that your load is too low. Ball powders don't work like extruded powders; the Winchester ball-powder loading manuals recommend not reducing their given loads more than 5% of maximum. To do otherwise can lead to odd pressure excursions.

BushBuster wrote:4. Has anyone used faster burning powders?

Yep. See my blurbs on 2400 and Blue Dot, cited above. Some other threads in this forum have more information.

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Re: 185g AR 450 bushmaster

Postby Hoot » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:06 am

In my 225 FTX Going the other way thread, I compared the results of three primers with Lil Gun. When I came here everyone was WSR WSR WSR.
Here's a graphic of how they relate to one another from that thread.
Image

The Remington 7 1/2, due to it's heat, consistently delivers high velocities from Lil Gun. I also subsequently tested Federal Gold Medal 205M primers, but this suckie search engine here ignores too many search terms to find my primer comparison thread. IIRC, The 205M runs similar to the WSR and 7 1/2. The BR4 and regular 400 are of similar heat, with the BR4 having better quality control. I've never felt compelled to use "Magnum" primers. If you find a pet load, it's worth the time to by a tray of several different primers to compare how they behave.

WRT unburned powder, that typically relates to neck tension, or lack of it in lighter bullets. When using bullets with a cannelure, I prefer to seat them so that the taper crimp catches one of the cannelures at the mouth of the case, regardless of COL as long as they aren't too long. I've had much better results using the furthest forward cannelure than the more rearward, especially if that rearward one is near the heel of the bullet, or if in seating to catch it, I do not have enough bullet left in the case. I never seat to less than half the caliber and given my druthers, prefer to seat to a depth equal to the caliber. Other folks experiments have revealed that you can lay on a lot more taper crimp than .478 and still catch plenty of chamber lip. .476, .474, .472, even .470 is fine. Whatever it takes to hold the bullets back until the powder is really cooking.

All that having been said, experiment and see what works for you. Take copious notes and as always, share your findings.

Hoot
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Re: 185g AR 450 bushmaster

Postby pitted bore » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:27 am

pitted bore wrote:
BushBuster wrote:3. Does anyone recommend any other bullets that might work better?
Sierra usually makes fine bullets, and I doubt the two 185's I've tried would be better. For the 450B, bullets closer to .452 are probably better in terms of better crimping and bore fit. If you can find a jacketed 185 that is larger in diameter than your Sierra then it might be marginally better.

BushBuster-
Sometimes I think my brain isn't much use for anything other than to keep my spinal cord from unravelling.

The recent thread started by jamesgang (Link) specifically mentions in the opening post that the 185-grain 45-caliber Magtech bullet is 0.452" in diameter.

The Magtech web site doesn't work well for me. The bullet is shown and described in detail on the MidwayUSA site at this product number: 1657346871. It's available from other vendors also.

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