Cast Boolits in the .450B

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Re: Cast Boolits in the .450B

Postby Bluehawk » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:54 pm

Has anyone tried IMR 4198 powder for the cast, 300 grain bullet weight range? I've always had great results in my Marlin 1895 .45-70 with it, and good results in my .458 Win Mag and so I'm curious wondering how it might work in a gas system.
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Re: Cast Boolits in the .450B

Postby wildcatter » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:07 pm

Bluehawk wrote:Has anyone tried IMR 4198 powder for the cast, 300 grain bullet weight range? I've always had great results in my Marlin 1895 .45-70 with it, and good results in my .458 Win Mag and so I'm curious wondering how it might work in a gas system.


You can use it, but efficiencies drop way off, pressures will drop (With the somewhat undesirable results of Sooting. If sooting gets bad enough you can experience side case collapse) and so do speeds, usually in the 300fps+- area. But if that's the desired results, then have at is..

..t

PS, I can't remember my results with 4198 and Hornady .458's sized to .452" But I don't remember if anything I was interested in occurred. And remember if you go heavier that 400gr and 375gr is the logical limit, then those bullets won't expand, because you aren't driving them at design speeds. The 458socom crowd love to talk about their Heavies, but the socom WILL NOT cause bullet expansion, using them. Might as well be using an inexpensive 230gr FMJ, OH Wait, they can't do that!

I have one more thing to say about using Real Serious Heavies, which we can and do, do. I've said this many times, so the regulars can stop reading here.

.."I can make a bowling Ball come out of an AR15 Barrel, but then the only thing in danger are my toes". Do we get the excessive heavy thing now?..t
Safety First..t
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Re: Cast Boolits in the .450B

Postby pitted bore » Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:03 pm

Bluehawk wrote:Has anyone tried IMR 4198 powder for the cast, 300 grain bullet weight range? I've always had great results in my Marlin 1895 .45-70 with it, and good results in my .458 Win Mag and so I'm curious wondering how it might work in a gas system.

Bluehawk-
The forum is always open to learning the results of experiments, so have at it and let us know what you learn.

However, you are tackling simultaneously two areas of 450B reloading practices that have not as yet produced really satisfactory results: cast bullets, and slower powders.

I posted a list of some of the more informative threads on cast bullet shooting, and the list was made a sticky: CAST BULLETS discussions . There are 17 threads listed there, and taken together they describe a lot of pretty careful work by pretty experienced cast bullet shooters. You might save yourself some time and aggravation in following blind alleys if you read them attentively.

In the 450B, 4198 is a slow powder. It may be helpful in selecting suitable powders to think of the 450B cartridge as a super magnum pistol cartridge, rather than a mini-45-70 or mini-458 WM. The 450B has a bit less capacity than the 460 S&W, and in most ARs the 450B has to function at a lower max psi. The 450B an extraordinarily versatile cartridge, but it is limited in case capacity. In both the 450S&W and 450B, 1680 is about the slowest powder that will function adequately.

I started to play with some 300-grain cast bullets in my bolt guns briefly before the local range was snowed in. I was intending to try Accurate 5744, which can produce excellent results with heavy and light loads in straight-walled cases and with cast bullets. If your 4198 experiments don't work, you might try that powder. I've no idea how it will work with the AR platform, however. The Accurate loading manuals provide loads for the 450B with 5744 and jacketed bullets. It also shows loads for the 460S&W with jacketed and cast lead bullets using 5744. However, the 460S&W full-power cast bullet 5744 loads produce pressures well beyond the 450B max, and are almost certainly unsafe if extrapolated to the 450B. The reduced loads for the cast bullets with 5744 might be interesting. However, pressures are unknown.

BE CAREFUL.

--Bob
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Re: Cast Boolits in the .450B

Postby wildcatter » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:49 am

In re-reading my reply and then Pittedbore's. I think I may have been a bit crass.

But, as per usual the Bobster (PB) has once again saved me. And the learned Pittedbore has some serious tidbits, in his address, that is quite instructive.

Of course, shoot and experiment with 4198, using proper safety Protocols. It may show you some deficiencies, but much can be learned and you might end up liking it very much and-and if you then share your results, so much the better.

Bobber, I've had some fairly good results with 5744 and heavies. I too have not tried it on cast bullets as of yet..

..t
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Re: Cast Boolits in the .450B

Postby Hoot » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:11 am

I would think that the ease which lead compresses to squeeze into and slide down the bore, compared to copper jacketed bullets, combined with the difficulty getting as good a hold upon them with a taper crimp, that faster powders like what we use for heavy jacketed bullets, would be the way to go. I realize hard, alloyed lead, can be pretty stiff, but it still pales to bullet grade copper alloy. Just butting in to an area I know next to nothing about.

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Re: Cast Boolits in the .450B

Postby m113103 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:47 am

Has anyone tried the half jackets with cast boolits. Back in the day Speer made a half jacket for the 357 pistol rounds for full power loads. When driving cast bullets at max velocity the boolits would strip the rifling. The have a good article in Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook on this subject. So the guy's would load the speer half jackets at max velocity. Check out this website.
http://www.corbins.com/jktlist.htm They can do custom jackets. Check out the jacket thickness. :D
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Re: Cast Boolits in the .450B

Postby Declay » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:10 pm

Looking for load data for 450 bushmaster,Lee 255 grain hard cast lead.what would be my start load with lil gun powder?how deep to seat bullet(oal).
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Re: Cast Boolits in the .450B

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:32 am

Declay wrote:Looking for load data for 450 bushmaster,Lee 255 grain hard cast lead.what would be my start load with lil gun powder?how deep to seat bullet(oal).

You’re probably going to have to slow down while shooting cast bullets. So I would step away from LilGun and find a more suitable powder.
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