sierra bullets/450BM

[hogbuster]

To Hoot or Wildcatter please. Question : I loaded some sierra pistol bullets, 300 grain, .4515 soft points, for the 450 BM. I loaded 29.7 grains of lil-gun ( The same load I used with the 300 grain Hornady XTP-MAG bullet) I was amazed at how accurate it was from my 16" . It hits as does the XTP MAG bullet so very close to my original scope setting for the factory FTX bullet that i didnt even have to change the scope. Bear in mind I am using it primarly as a 100 yard gun.I did notice ,however, that the cases using the XTP-MAG bullets (.452) had very little soot on the mouth of the case, where as the .4515 bullet had quite a bit for about 3/8 of an inch. I attributed this to the smaller diameter of the sierra bullet an am thinking that if I up the load somewhat the case will expand more properly in the chamber. 29.7 grains is not that hot a load and the book says I can go a little more, what do you think ? From a bipod , from a bench, the sierra bullet cuts the same hole, sort of a closed up sideways figure 8, and i really dont think i can expect much more as far as accuracy goes. I just got off the phone with sierra asking them about the suitability of this bullet for hog hunting. Their tech asked me what the velocity was , I told him it was around 1800, as i have not chronographed it yet. He said it was a really tough bullet with a heavy jacket and it should work quite well for hunting large hogs, when asked it it would withstand going through both shoulder bones on a large hog he felt that there was no problem and the bullet was well suited for the task.I have read quite a bit on the 450BM on this site but no where did I see this particular bullet ( .4515 dia) mentioned, I have a bunch for my pistols and so i decided to try them.I am extremely pleased with their performance. I appreciate what both of you , along with many others have done to make our sport both knowledgable and safe. I will thank you in advance for your consideration of this matter. If you wish to contact me directly my E-mail address is Whurleysr.@gmail.com. " Hog Buster "

[Hoot]

While I'm not very experienced with loading the heavies, that looks like you are loading them awful light. That can result in insufficient initiating chamber pressure to ensure a good seal around the mouth and they soot. Then there are some loads that just soot regardless, but they're more prevalent with lighter bullets and Lil Gun. One could argue that the smaller diameter bullet may not be getting adequate neck tension. Assuming you are using the regular Hornady die set for the 450b, consider running the taper crimp die down to produce a resulting mouth diameter of .476" or even a little less, given the bullet's slightly smaller diameter. If those bullets have a cannelure, seat them until the cannelure is just at or below the case mouth so your taper crimp drives the mouth into it. That yields a real reliable crimp. A way to test whether you need more neck tension would be to load one up, chuck it in an inertial bullet puller and see how many strikes on a hard, firm surface it takes to dislodge it. This caliber relies heavily upon firm neck tension. More so than any of the shouldered calibers I load for. I would guess that for a 300 ahead of LG, you should be using somewhere in the area of 32-36gr. Try these ideas and see if that helps with the sooting, but understand it often goes hand-in-hand with this caliber. If you haven't already read this, I might mention that unless you absolutely can't get those bullets to start when seating them, do not use the expander die. You'll get better inherent neck tension just leaving them the diameter they come out of the re-sizer at, than if you expand them and then crimp them back down and you'll reduce the work hardening of the mouths.

I'm glad you're having fun with this black rifle beast of burden. Playing with reloading them is like eating cashews!

Hoot

EDIT: Almost forgot to mention not to use cool primers with Lil Gun. When I first started off, I had a brick of BR4 primers for other calibers and tried using them. Bad idea. You'll get much more reliable chamber pressure and overall performance with a hot primer like Remington 7 1/2, WLR or 205Ms (in that order). I personally like the 7 1/2s for Lil Gun.
H-

[Jim in Houston]

EDIT: . . . with a hot primer like Remington 7 1/2, WLR or 205Ms (in that order). I personally like the 7 1/2s for Lil Gun.
H-

Did you mean WSR instead of WLR?

[wildcatter]

I absolutly agree with everything Hoot has just written.

If accuracy were the only goal, you might want to just put up with the sooting, which doesn't really create much of a problem as we perceive it does. But it is a window into whats happening and something You may choose to deal with. As Hoot has said, try the hotter primers and boosting the powder charge some. Watch the danger signs, which at the load you are talking about, I'd wager you are not seeing any, yet.

Myself, I use AA1680 for the heavies, but HEY!! You can't argue what is working and I hope you maintain that accuracy.

As that Sierra hasn't been worked over much on this sight, you just now became our Ginny-Pig (every pun intended). So, keep us up to date and take a camera into the field and get us the gory specs (inside and out, weather, angle, penetration, final bullet weight, pig weight, everything)...We gotta have it 'ol-man, if we're ever to ring this thing out this century..

..t

[Hoot]

EDIT: . . . with a hot primer like Remington 7 1/2, WLR or 205Ms (in that order). I personally like the 7 1/2s for Lil Gun.
H-

Did you mean WSR instead of WLR?

Yes, good catch Jim. I was just using WLRs in a .308 load and had them on my mind.
Hoot

[teamja2]

I have started using the SIerra 300's in the 450 and just loaded the second lot of 25.
Accuracy has been very good with the bullet. I ended up calling Sierra about load data and as of about 3 months ago they had not shot data for the 450 so I used the hornady Data for the 300 XTP bullet. Using a max listed load of w296 out of the Hornady book I am seeing 5 shot groups around 1.5" during load development so I have a batch of 25 to see if that holds. I am getting some sooting of the case even at this powder level but have not let that bother me.

What led me to this bullet besides liking the Sierra bullets is the flat metplat of around .330. Even with the large flat nose feeding is flawless. I'm not sure it is the best deer bullet as it is pretty hard - thinking of playing with the 250xtp as I have used it successfully in a muzzleloader but it is a good plinking load for now.

[hogbuster]

Thanks to everyone for the advise, I appreciate your efforts to help me. I was using WSR primers and used the factory taper crimp die that comes with the Hornady die set. As I have read just about everything I could on this site, I taper crimped them to a measured .475 which seems to have worked quite well.The soot doesnt bother me all that much but does indicate that all is not as well as it could be. I have a new box of factory bullets ( 250 grain FTX ) and will be working up a factory dupe load in the next few days. So will not be loading any sierra bullets any time soon. I will,however, keep everyone informed when i start the sierra project back up. I will be using Lil-Gun and WSR primers on my factory dupe loads so If anyone has already done this, and I am sure someone has, I would appreciate any recipes you may offer. Again thanks for the help. " Hog Buster "

[hogbuster]

I recently loaded up some test rounds for the 450BM . The first thing I did when I got to the range was to shoot three factory loads through the chrony to get some idea of what i was getting with a 16 inch barrel. The average came out at 2114 fps. I then shot some reloads that had 35.0/35.5/36.0/36.5/37.0 and last 37.5 or .4 short of a Hornady listed max load of 37.9 grains. I must admit I came away some what confused, as the 35.0 had slightly higher velocity than the 35.5, the 36.0 had slightly higher velocity than the 36.5 and all I could get out of the 37.5 was an average of 2107 Fps. I checked everything and found no mistakes in my procedure or equipment.. I have been reloading since 1976 and have never run into anything like this. I was using: Hornady Brass , WSR primers, Lil-Gun powder and the 250 grain Factory bullet the FTX. I observed no signs of pressure or anything abnormal.I am led to believe I can safely load these to the 37.5 loading ( Temp was 88 degrees) with no problem but wanted to see what problems members were having trying to make a factory duplication round. I know we do not know what powders Hornady used, and I understand its the general consensus that lil-gun is probably my best choice of powders. Does anyone have any comments and or suggestions ? One of the shots came in at 2158 and If i could have gotten that as an average i would have been really happy.One of my goals was to get velocity near that of a 20 inch barrel. Does anyone get a true 2200 fps out of the 450BM ? Thank you , Hog Buster

[wildcatter]

I recently loaded up some test rounds for the 450BM . The first thing I did when I got to the range was to shoot three factory loads through the chrony to get some idea of what i was getting with a 16 inch barrel. The average came out at 2114 fps. I then shot some reloads that had 35.0/35.5/36.0/36.5/37.0 and last 37.5 or .4 short of a Hornady listed max load of 37.9 grains. I must admit I came away some what confused, as the 35.0 had slightly higher velocity than the 35.5, the 36.0 had slightly higher velocity than the 36.5 and all I could get out of the 37.5 was an average of 2107 Fps. I checked everything and found no mistakes in my procedure or equipment.. I have been reloading since 1976 and have never run into anything like this. I was using: Hornady Brass , WSR primers, Lil-Gun powder and the 250 grain Factory bullet the FTX. I observed no signs of pressure or anything abnormal.I am led to believe I can safely load these to the 37.5 loading ( Temp was 88 degrees) with no problem but wanted to see what problems members were having trying to make a factory duplication round. I know we do not know what powders Hornady used, and I understand its the general consensus that lil-gun is probably my best choice of powders. Does anyone have any comments and or suggestions ? One of the shots came in at 2158 and If i could have gotten that as an average i would have been really happy.One of my goals was to get velocity near that of a 20 inch barrel. Does anyone get a true 2200 fps out of the 450BM ? Thank you , Hog Buster

The factory powder is 297. Yes, most have gotten 2200fps and more, out of the 250ftx.

As far as the velocity incongruities are concerned.. Are you holding you tongue on the left or right side? To get 2200fps, you might have to work up to 40gr, just watch for pressure signs and stop increasing powder, if the signs say to stop, be safe..

..t

[hogbuster]

Wildcatter, thanks for the reply, is the factory powder you mentioned commercially available ? I rather doubt it, but just had to ask, its like dating a pretty girl, you will never know if you dont ask. After I sent the last message to the general public, I stopped my reloading while waiting for an answer, now I can continue, thanks to your answer. Also want to mention , I have two cans of lil-gun ,one I have had for about two years and one i have just purchased. I used the new can of powder for the test i mentioned and think I will now go back and shoot the test over again with the other can of powder just to see if theres any difference and because I am retired and have plenty of time and assets to do so. Just wondering, Is there any such thing as getting a bad can of powder ? Thanks again . " Hogbuster"