Newbie question?

[HillBilly]

I use Lee FCD's on everything and I see that quite a few round these parts are using a 45-70 die with a slight mod. Has anyone tried a 45colt/454 cas. FCD? I'm just getting geared up for the 450 ans seeing I already have two of these laying around I figured I'd ask before I have lee make me one...

Thanks in advance...

HB

[wildcatter]

I use Lee FCD's on everything and I see that quite a few round these parts are using a 45-70 die with a slight mod. Has anyone tried a 45colt/454 cas. FCD? I'm just getting geared up for the 450 ans seeing I already have two of these laying around I figured I'd ask before I have lee make me one...

Thanks in advance...

HB

Hey-yo, HillBilly, I might assume that you'all are from parts south of the Mason/Dixon, but I'll have you know, that if ya gets a real good Websters, the definition of a HillBilly is a Michigan Potato Farmer. Beings I live in Michigan, well, that might just make you and I cousins!

Hey Cuzz, welcome to the Board!!

Now for that Lee 45 colt FCD, is that a side crimp type or is it a roll crimp type. You'll need a Side crimp type and the pistol dies from Lee use-ta-be a roll crimp..t

[pitted bore]

HillBilly-

The following is humming harmony to the tune that wildcatter sang above.

The two ctgs you mention, the 45 LC and 454 Cassull, headspace on the rim. The 450B headspaces on the case mouth, much like 45 ACP and other straight-walled rimless pistol cartridges. Compared with rimmed straight-walled cartridges, the case mouth diameter is a critical dimension; so is case length.

If you haven't reloaded rimless straight-walled pistol cartridges, you should find a good manual and read up on the problems and procedures specific to them. Many such procedures and the reasons for them will apply to the 450B.

The Hornady die set for the 450B includes a separate taper crimp die that adequately accomplishes the normal needed crimping. The Lee 45-70 crimp die is a collet-type crimper, and we considerably modify it for use with the 450B to solve some special problems. The modification results in a side crimp well away from the case mouth. This side crimp is very unlike the "factory crimp" that Lee advertises.

--Bob

[thebrassnuckles]

Why is it that most of yougentlemen are placing the crimp where it is as opposed to the location a crimp is put on 45ACP?

[pitted bore]

Why is it that most of you gentlemen are placing the crimp where it is as opposed to the location a crimp is put on 45ACP?

thebrassnuckles-

The real answer to your question is a long one, which you can piece together reading the early threads on this reloading forum, and on the calguns thread.

A short and incomplete answer is that with some loads a heavier crimp (greater bullet pull) is needed than can be obtained with a taper crimp. The limit to which a taper crimp may be applied is based on the minimum case mouth diameter. If you apply too much taper crimp, the mouth diameter can become so small that upon chambering, the case can move forward of where it should stop. Bad things can happen then.

There are not too many options for increasing bullet pull in a taper-crimped case. The side crimp applied with a collet is about the easiest option. Side stabbing has been used in some military ammo in the past. Applying a bonding agent between the bullet and the interior of the case mouth might be possible, but it's difficult to be consistent with that technique.

I haven't followed the side-crimp techniques used by all of the other posters on this board. However, in my own work, I apply the taper crimp just as I would with the 45 ACP, and then apply the side crimp. The cartridge is then crimped in two places.

--Bob

[BayouBob]

Who is he calling a gentleman? Around here that term is used about as loosely as country realtors use the phrase "on paved road" or "lake view[u]" property.[/u]

[thebrassnuckles]

i see. so it is used to increase the amount of force needed to push the bullet out of the case, to allow for a more complete burn... more or less?

[pitted bore]

i see. so it is used to increase the amount of force needed to push the bullet out of the case, to allow for a more complete burn... more or less?

Yep.

BD1 explained it better than I. Read his March 09 post (sixth from the top) in the thread titled "primers": http://450bushmaster.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=524

--Bob

[HillBilly]

HillBilly-

The following is humming harmony to the tune that wildcatter sang above.

The two ctgs you mention, the 45 LC and 454 Cassull, headspace on the rim. The 450B headspaces on the case mouth, much like 45 ACP and other straight-walled rimless pistol cartridges. Compared with rimmed straight-walled cartridges, the case mouth diameter is a critical dimension; so is case length.

If you haven't reloaded rimless straight-walled pistol cartridges, you should find a good manual and read up on the problems and procedures specific to them. Many such procedures and the reasons for them will apply to the 450B.

The Hornady die set for the 450B includes a separate taper crimp die that adequately accomplishes the normal needed crimping. The Lee 45-70 crimp die is a collet-type crimper, and we considerably modify it for use with the 450B to solve some special problems. The modification results in a side crimp well away from the case mouth. This side crimp is very unlike the "factory crimp" that Lee advertises.

--Bob

You might say Ive got a few rounds under my belt... Ive sent several Square Deals back to Mike Dillon to rebuild. I'm an 07/02 SOT that does R&D and T&E on up and coming weapons systems. I also troubleshoot new designs for other MFG's...
Subgun and pistol ammo I do all progressive, Big handgun and rifle I do all single stage. 5.56 and 7.62x39 I just buy wolf. I've been slacking though...9mm is still pretty cheap...

I bit the bullet on the 450 after a good friend of mine did a piece on it in in his magazine. He went on to do a piece in a local rag after he took a Black Bear with it. It put venison in his freezer last fall also.

My biggest reason for posting this question was to see if I could just find another factory crimp die that would work without any mods. I think I've got a spare 45-70 fcd that I could throw in a chuck and turn. Or just send a dummy round to lee and get one made...

Wildcatter, Im a Northern Hillbilly

[pitted bore]

HillBilly-

Please accept my apologies. I wrote my answer assuming your self-description as a "newbie" was correct.

Please hang around the forum and help us become more knowledgeable about 450 reloading. Thanks.
--Bob