DANGEROUS LOADING PRACTICES

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Re: DANGEROUS LOADING PRACTICES

Postby gunnut » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:35 am

I agree. Maybe you should start with reloading something more common with lots of published data. I think we all started there. Sort of keeping it between the diches for now. I started with the 45acp back in the early 80s. Explored it and started making my 45 shot shells from 308 & 30-06 casings. ;) There is nothing like making your own custom ammo! :P Get a reloading manuel and read it. For me 2 or 3 times to understand whats going on and what went wrong. :geek: Make all the common mistakes within safe guild lines and you will make mistakes,We all did. :oops: We learn from them.
Stick to published data for now and you will enjoy a very rewarding hobby! :D
When you feel ready, This is the place to learn about the 450B!! These are the best of People you can find....
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Re: DANGEROUS LOADING PRACTICES

Postby MudBug » Thu Dec 17, 2009 1:48 am

I'm not sure I agree. I see no reason why he couldn't start with the published data for the 450b. The only problem is that it's very limited, but it would would still give him something to do with his used brass, and maybe save some money on some blastin ammo.

I haven'y done anything real extreme with my reloading. Most of my stuff has stuck pretty close to factory data other than the bullets (I'm mostly just looking for cheaper 250 grn bullets to shoot).
Eric

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Re: DANGEROUS LOADING PRACTICES

Postby YoteAddict » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:11 am

mikil wrote:...new 450 owner,which I love to shoot....I want to start reloading...maybe the 450 round isn't what I should try early on. Any thoughts or suggestions would help.


When I got a 454 Casull revolver, I started reloading since the cost of factory ammo didn't allow me to shoot as often as I wanted to. The 450 Bushmaster creates a similar scenario (and I also reload that cartridge). Reloading will allow you to shoot that rifle that you love to shoot more often and you won't think as much about the cost of shooting it if you reload to lower the price per round. Also, you will recover your investment in your reloading equipment at a faster rate by reloading a round that is a more expensive factory offering.

In my case, I started reloading all of the standard cartridges after the expensive cartridge created the impetus for me to take the plunge and get the necessary equipment. But I chose to reload the expensive cartridge first to keep shooting.
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Re: DANGEROUS LOADING PRACTICES

Postby Siringo » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:20 am

I agree with Mudbug! This is not a difficult cartridge to reload. Stick with the Hornady data published on their website with the recommended bullets. Stick with Hornady brass for the 450, Winchester Small rifle primers and Lil'gun and your good to go. To date my favorite bullet is the 240 gr. Hornady XTP mag. Accurate, good veloctiy and 1/2 the price of the 250 gr. FXT's.
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Re: DANGEROUS LOADING PRACTICES

Postby gunnut » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:13 pm

MY Bad!! I've been loading 284 cases too long.
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Re: DANGEROUS LOADING PRACTICES

Postby wildcatter » Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:10 am

Ok, it has been many months since anything has been added to this string..

It has been belabored by us, as to the dangers of under-loading and pressure wave events, i.e., Detonation..

FYI..

So there I am on AmmoGuide.com, looking at data tonight and see this at the bottom of the page.. (http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/ai.cgi?sn= ... &catid=628)

* H110 and W296 CHARGE REDUCTION WARNING
H110/W296 Loads should not be reduced more than 3%.
Reduce H110/W296 Loads 3% and work up from there. If reduced too much, H110/W296 will cause inconsistent ignition. In some cases it will lodge a bullet in the barrel, causing a hazardous situation (Barrel Obstruction). This may cause severe personal injury or death.
DO NOT REDUCE H110 or W296 LOADS BY MORE THAN 3%.

Now, the 3% thing is a pretty severe tolerance, in my opinion, and have stated that 20% reductions have been well documented in the literature, but that I personally do not like more than a 10% reduction, here's a recommendation of not more than 3%.

Does lil-gun fall into this category or other powders? Me thinks tis-be-so, Matey. Although, some powders are more prone to a Pressure Wave Event, none are totally excluded.

You've been warned, now go make us proud..t
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Re: DANGEROUS LOADING PRACTICES

Postby pitted bore » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:40 am

T-
Some ball powders can be tricky.

I've got a booklet titled "Winchester Ball Powder Loading Data" dated 3/84, which has almost the same warning for 296 in the section on handgun loading data:

CAUTION - - Loads using 296 powder require heavy bullet pull (heavy crimp). 296 powder is not suitable with light bullets. The use of 296 powder with light bullet pull (light crimp) or lightweight bullets can cause squib loads. Such loads create a hazard to both the shooter and bystander as a bullet lodged in the barrel may cause the gun to burst if not removed before the next round is fired.

We have endeavored to show those applications for which Ball Powder smokeless propellant is most ideally suited. While other loads are certainly possible, the only way such loads can be developed is in a ballistic laboratory. We caution against the use of any other loads with Ball Powder smokeless propellant except where such loads have been adequately proven with the proper testing.


In addition, for some (not all) rifle loads with 760 and 785 powders, there is this warning:
CAUTION - - Loads marked with an asterisk must be used exactly as shown. No reductions in powder charge or change in components should be made because such changes can cause dangerous pressures.

In other words, you had to stick with Winchester components. However, I don't think the warning was a marketing device. All the 785 loads were marked with the warning, and 785 was discontinued about that time. I suspect they didn't want to run the risk of handloaders not following instructions precisely, and getting the big ka-boom.

These warnings help explain some of what I was observing with my light bullet loads and 296.

--Bob
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Re: DANGEROUS LOADING PRACTICES

Postby wildcatter » Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:38 pm

EXACTLY,

And this is why I wanted to raise a caution, not to stop doing what we are doing, but to be aware of all our pressure and other warning indicators, while experimenting. An ops is going to happen, just make sure, you know, you are the experimenters (You) and all of the writers here are not responsible, for "Your" loading practices, for your results, can and will, be different..t
Safety First..t
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Re: DANGEROUS LOADING PRACTICES

Postby michael5446 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:55 pm

so far i pretty much stick to the factory reload info and use jacketed bullets in the 200 to 300 grain range with no problems and total fun... shootin cast lead bullets will change things as well as different powders... WE MUST use safe practices when experimenting with new loads... since i cant help it to try new things, i set up the 450 with the RSI pressure trace system to track different barrel pressure waves with different powders and bullet types...

are any of you using one of these yet?, it does work and could be useful in setting up a more comprehensive reload database on this site, its better than packin it all in there and then seeing if we can blow our hands off :o

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/

installed pics on the 450
IMAG0099.jpg
IMAG0099.jpg (86.61 KiB) Viewed 4804 times

IMAG0100.jpg
IMAG0100.jpg (79.69 KiB) Viewed 4804 times

IMAG0101.jpg
IMAG0101.jpg (75.93 KiB) Viewed 4804 times


use your brain, use the right tools, try to keep it at reasonable level of increase because i still want to be able to drive a motorcycle at over 300 mph over the salt flats :mrgreen:

maybe, someday
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Re: DANGEROUS LOADING PRACTICES

Postby MOUNTIN DU » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:19 pm

Image OK... after researching the inet and previous posts here Image the old dog learns a new thing or two :roll:
:? it seems that in 2003-2006 hodgdon acquired imr & win powder manufacturing and some commonalities have evolved into generalities when comparing h110 & w296 burn rates, density, finsih coatings, etc., :| although since that merger all the new data treats them the same :|
i stand by my original learnings though... don't treat them exactly the same if your powder is older than 2006. i know all my h110 was bought in the '90's, and the little w296 i have left pre-dates that. for safety's sake, know your components before you make assumptions, especially when venturing into untested waters :mrgreen:

m5446... from the looks of those pic's, i assume you are able to reinstall the handguard without interference to the sensor for shooting purposes?
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