225 FTX - Going the other way too

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Re: 225 FTX - Going the other way too

Postby Hoot » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:16 pm

Texas Sheepdawg wrote:
Durdy1 wrote:I agree Hoot there will not be huge gains...but since my barrel is so short, I will take any gain I can get. I will pick up some rem 71/2 primers and a pound of lilgun and a pound of 2400, start loading in the next 2-3 weeks. Thanks

Document your powder usage with that 2400. I'm extremely interested in your findings. Please post a range report to let us know how well it performed!


It was already fast for the 200 FTX in my 20" when I tried it, but it worked. I also tried it with the 225 FTX and again, it gave results suggesting as no surprise, that it was fast for that as well. Not unusable, just not playing to its strengths. It may well be Da' Bomb in a short barrel compared to Lil Gun. I too look forward to seeing the range report.

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Re: 225 FTX - Going the other way too

Postby 99avant » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:06 am

I tried out some 225 FTX yesterday after reading this thread.

36.9gr Lil gun, WSR primers. At 100 yards with just a front rest.

Not awesome, but this is pretty good shooting for me.

Image

The other group is .223
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Re: 225 FTX - Going the other way too

Postby plant_one » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:25 am

it may not be the prettiest group in the world, but that'll still make a deer achieve room temperature.

my dad's huntin gun is about 3-4 MOA (an old remington 30-06 autoloader) but hes never had a problem putting meat in the freezer with it.
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Re: 225 FTX - Going the other way too

Postby Hoot » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:35 am

Excellent start there. I don't know about other members but for me, the less often I shoot an AR, the worse I do when I get back to shooting it. For me, I need to shoot every week to maintain "the feel" for when I'm holding it just right and working the trigger just right, in terms of resultant groups downrange. The addition of a rear bag can help tighten up the groups considerably as well, but consistent technique is the ultimate key to happiness.

My experience with the different caliber ARs I have versus my bolt action guns is that the ARs don't like being over-controlled. They need to buck and snort a little bit to shoot their best. I have a Caldwell Lead Sled with 60lb of lead ingots, a custom BR rest adapted to it and velcro straps to hold the most violent caliber down. Under those circumstances, my experience with my ARs has been that they don't shot any better than with a front rest, rear bag and a comfortable, minimally firm hold on it.

It would be nice if everyone who has some kind of chrony and reloads with Lil Gun, post what velocities they get for charge weight, bullet and primer. It doesn't have to be some lengthy scientific endeavor. Include how long you've had that batch of Lil Gun as well. It helps us keep track in changes to the formulation, that Hodgdon says is not happening. I know my recipes from back in 2010, no longer produce the same velocity and since that contributes to OCW and OBT, it manifests downrange as well on the groups.

I saw on my phone that someone else posted while I was, so hope my post is not redundant.

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Re: 225 FTX - Going the other way too

Postby 99avant » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:01 pm

Prior to this load I was trying with the 240 xtp mag. WIth 6 different charge loads, I was not getting this kind of accuracy.

The reason I say that, is that I did have some chrono data from that work and it was with lil gun.

I'm going to keep going with the 225ftx, I am very pleased with my first attemp with it.
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Re: 225 FTX - Going the other way too

Postby Mdt1992 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:21 pm

I also run 38gr lil gun with a 225gr FTX with a side crimp. Shoots about 1.5" at 100yards. Shot a scrub buck last Sunday at 95yards with this load and the 225's did the job.
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Re: 225 FTX - Going the other way too

Postby Hoot » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:09 pm

99avant wrote:Prior to this load I was trying with the 240 xtp mag. WIth 6 different charge loads, I was not getting this kind of accuracy.

The reason I say that, is that I did have some chrono data from that work and it was with lil gun.

I'm going to keep going with the 225ftx, I am very pleased with my first attemp with it.


Despite them being a good choice for this caliber, I too have not had stellar results with either the 240 or the 300gr XTP mags in terms of tight groups. Either are good in terms of minute of deer though. Ditto on the 300gr Speer Gold Dots / Deep Curl hollow points. Not exactly sure why.

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Re: 225 FTX - Going the other way too

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:58 pm

Hoot wrote:
99avant wrote:Prior to this load I was trying with the 240 xtp mag. WIth 6 different charge loads, I was not getting this kind of accuracy.

The reason I say that, is that I did have some chrono data from that work and it was with lil gun.

I'm going to keep going with the 225ftx, I am very pleased with my first attemp with it.


Despite them being a good choice for this caliber, I too have not had stellar results with either the 240 or the 300gr XTP mags in terms of tight groups. Either are good in terms of minute of deer though. Ditto on the 300gr Speer Gold Dots / Deep Curl hollow points. Not exactly sure why.

Hoot
.
I did some work with the Speer Deep curls in 250 Grain and they seemed to like the LilGun with a standard taper crimp but only with 40.0 grains of LilGun. Had okay results with 41.0 Grains but the 40.0 grains performed the best.
Here's the link to the range report.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12989
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Re: 225 FTX - Going the other way too

Postby jason » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:52 am

Hoot wrote:It would be nice if everyone who has some kind of chrony and reloads with Lil Gun, post what velocities they get for charge weight, bullet and primer. It doesn't have to be some lengthy scientific endeavor. Include how long you've had that batch of Lil Gun as well. It helps us keep track in changes to the formulation, that Hodgdon says is not happening. I know my recipes from back in 2010, no longer produce the same velocity and since that contributes to OCW and OBT, it manifests downrange as well on the groups.

Hoot



I have a OEM Bushmaster 16" upper with VXII CDS 3x9. I am getting 2385 fps avg using 40g lil gun with a 225 ftx. Rem 7 1/2 br primer taper crimped to .474 and a 2.12 oal. 5 shot groups are at 100 yds are .5-1.0 moa avg. The CDS turret with zero stop is good to nearly 300yds.
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Re: 225 FTX - Going the other way too

Postby Hoot » Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:27 pm

jason wrote:I have a OEM Bushmaster 16" upper with VXII CDS 3x9. I am getting 2385 fps avg using 40g lil gun with a 225 ftx. Rem 7 1/2 br primer taper crimped to .474 and a 2.12 oal. 5 shot groups are at 100 yds are .5-1.0 moa avg. The CDS turret with zero stop is good to nearly 300yds.


And its not all that hot out either!

Thanks Jason. Your results exceed what I got with a 20" barrel and the same load when I started this thread 6 1/2 years ago. This is why I asked for some observations. I'm not alone in declaring that the formulation for Lil Gun has gotten hotter despite Hodgdon not mentioning it. That's not the end of the world for using it with this caliber, but it may preclude Lil Gun being a good choice for the heavier bullets we use. It does help folks who use the shorter, carbine length barrel, but folks with longer barrels and especially folks using faster twist barrels may find its not a good choice for the heavier bullets it worked with in past reports. It definitely reduces the usefulness of a lot of work I did back in my early years shooting the 450b. That's not bad news either. It always good for more people to experiment and contribute to our knowledge base as a continuing process.

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