250 XTP load broke my extractor

[oldmanjeffers]

Hello, New guy here with a few questions.

I loaded up some 450BM ammo last night and headed for the range this morning, After firing 3 shots of factory hornady 250's to make sure I was still zeroed I shot a total of 8 of my hand loads, On the 8th shot I got a stove pipe and upon closer inspection I found my extractor to be broken.

Let me back up a little and share my loading procedures.

I started off with factory once fired brass from my rifle, Cleaned and polished, Primmed with Remington 7 1/2 Small Bench Rest Primers, Charged with 35.4 grs of Lil gun and seated 250gr Hornady XTP bullets in them to 2.060, I did the "CLUNK" test an all passed. I am using a .284 FL sizer and seating and taper crimping them with a LEE 45ACP carbide die. On half of them I use Locktite to further "Hold" the bullet better, Because with out the Locktite I was able to use my Hammer style bullet remover to almost remove the bullet with two firm wackes, So I thought I'd experiment a little, Firing the first 4 hand loads with out the Locktite things went very well, all placed with in 2" of my factory shots, little to no soot on the brass. Firing the next 4 with locktite I noticed a bit more soot on the brass and the recoil was noticeably snapper, but the bullets were still with in what I see as an acceptable group for only having a red dot at 100 yards. Then on my 4th and final shot (things broke) I got the stove pipe and found bits of metal in the receiver. (Broken extractor)

My Questions are

1) Is this load to hot?
2) If I got little to no soot on my non-Locktite loads I should stick to just the tapper crimp? Right?
3) What do all you think of my load? Could I seat the bullet further, to the grove in the bullet it self?

I know some of this may fall into the "DUH" category, but I am new to this cartridge and could use any help you have to offer, With all the information I've read about this round, I'm pretty confused, I have Lil gun and W296 for powders, I'm looking for a mid range load with the 250XTP that will be used at the range primarily.

Thanks in advance, And thanks for having me!

[Hoot]

I'm surprised you are having such loose loads, but I use the Hornady taper crimp die set to yield .476 inch mouths. With my 250 FTXs seated to 2.25 COL (to get closer to the throat) it takes 6-7 whacks with my inertial puller to get them out. I wonder it the loctite built up around the point where the lip of the cartridge engages the lip on the chamber? Have you shot with loctite before? Were you sure it was fully cured? I have considered it myself for the shorter, lighter bullets. Now, I'm not so sure. I'd be looking closely in the chamber with some good lighting to see if you have any deposits in there. Your recipe is not too hot by any stretch of the imagination. Are the 250 XTPs .452 or .451?

Hoot

[Siringo]

This is the second broken extractor here in a week. The extractor on the 450B is special to that cartridge. It is not the same as the 223 or 7.62.

Your load seems OK -- I am assuming this is 450 Bushmaster brass and not redone 284 Brass.

Is your rifle new -- meaning with the most recent delivery? Is Bushmaster having an issue with this part?

Regarding Loctite -- I had tried this on some Barnes 200 gr. bullets. Not worth the trouble and I was unsure what the heat from combustion would do to the glue. In order for the glue to really work -- both the inside of the case and the bullet have to be clean and free from any foreign substance. If you are using once fired cases, the mouths have to be cleaned of all lube, carbon, powder fouling, ect. This is pretty hard to consistently do, since when the powder is loaded, traces of graphite from the powder can get on to the case mouth (using ball powders). Glue will not stick well.

My recommendation is to:

1. Buy the proper Hornady dies
2. Taper crimp only
3. Size only, do not expand the cases. This increases the neck tension. The inside ID of the cases should be .445 to .446 inches. Using the Hornady expander, they would be .448".
4. Make sure the neck area is free of lube and carbon (as near as possible to factory brass).

[pitted bore]

With all the information I've read about this round, I'm pretty confused . . .

oldmanjeffers-

Most of us are still in the "pretty confused" category. Reloading for a big fat case that headspaces on the case mouth is a new experience for most of us. Many of the rules from other types of cartridges do not apply.

Siringo covered the important points about your problem. I'll add for emphasis that you really should obtain the set of Hornady dies. Although I personally like to jerry-rig reloading apparatus and procedures, in this instance the factory dies are a better solution. You will probably recover the investment rapidly in unwasted bullets, powder, primers,etc.

A couple of notes: First, the 35.4-grain load you selected is from Hornady's data sheet for the FTX, not the XTP, and it's at the upper end of the range of powder charges. Did you start at 35.4 grains, or did you work up to that charge in some prior tests you did not describe? The bearing surface of the XTP (Hornady No. 45200) differs from the FTX factory-loaded bullet (Hornady No. 45201), and this will likely affect pressures for a given charge.

Second is a cautionary note about Siringo's recommendation on not using the expanding die from the Hornady set. This may work with no problems, and all will be well. It is also possible that trying to seat the bullet without expansion may result in telescoped and ruined cases. If this happens, then use the absolute minimum expansion that will allow bullets to be seated.

Third, I don't think your two-tap neck tension is necessarily too loose, but this opinion is based only on my own tests to date.

Please post the results of your further work with this cartridge. We're all still learning.

--Bob

[oldmanjeffers]

First off thanks for the quick replies!

Hoot, This is mt first go around with Locktite in any reloading procedures, IMO it was cured the loads were made 13 hours prior to firing, I was very careful to wipe any excess off the round after seating the bullet, What I did was just seat the bullet enough so It wouldn't fall off when handling it, I applied the Locktite with a very fine piece of wire ( 1/16 SS Tig rod sharped to a point) I then wiped any excess off before finishing the seat. I was basically left with a very small amount just at the case mouth and bullet. Zero deposits in the chamber, Looked very good before cleaning and the bullets are .452

Siringo, These were made using once fired Hornady brass from my Rifle, This upper is/was new when I got it, Good story behind that, In short I was at the right place at the right time and the people in the gun shop made a ridicules offer to the guy (He needed money to make his car payment) I followed him out side and offered $300 he countered with $320, I handed him the cash and everyone was happy, It's a 20". He said he bought it in early 2009. I'm with you on the proper dies, but had these and want to try it out. Hornady dies are next to buy.

Pitted bore, I did not work up to this charge, Just started off their, Looking back at where I got my load data for that bullet you are correct, It is for the FTX. I hate it when an OOPS could have been the reason I broke something. Dang it!!! Any-who I don't think was anywhere near blowing up the gun.
I've got to do a bit of expanding to get the bullet to start, I again use the 45ACP die for that and only place the smallest amount of flair for it to work, I can't see any other way around it? Ya know what I mean.

In closing, Being the none Locktite loads did really good, I'll leave the Locktite to nuts and bolts, Reduce my charge to 32 grs and work up from their, And get the proper dies.
Any further recommendations or load data for the 250XTP are much appreciated.

[Siringo]

To be a little clearer on the seating w/o expanding -- the bullets I use have a fairly substantial rounded rear edge. Also, I use the Hornady die with the alignment seating stem.

[oldmanjeffers]

OK, I want to run this buy you all also, I just got my .284 brass back from the machinist (freebie). This was new Win. brass, He first sized them (284 FL) and then trimmed them to 1.703, I made up a dummy round, I opened up the case mouth just big enough to accept the .452 250gr XTP with out shaving or damaging the bullet, I set the bullet to 2.060, I have a bit of a heel at 0.280 from the case mouth. The heel measures 0.479 just as the factory round does at the same spot. Now just below that heel on the modded .284 brass it measures 0.277 then goes back up in dia. as the case tapers out. I thought I was going to need to ream these modified cases to .452ID but this looks really good as is! How does this look to you guys? and being I'll be using large rifle primers with this brass is 32grs of lilgun still a good starting point?

[Hoot]

Not having successfully reworked .284 brass, I'll leave that to the other folks who have. My question is why you're seating them so deep. Are they that much shorter than the 250gr FTX, minus the red tip? I tend to load everything as long as will still fit in the magazine if and this is an important if, they don't show signs of too little neck tension. I'm from the school of the closer the ogive is to where the rifling starts, the more accurate they'll be. Admittedly, these are not target loads, but seating them deeper than necessary also reduces the amount of space you have for powder, if you're chasing velocity. Admittedly I might also mention, I'm a bit odd.

Hoot

[Siringo]

I am by far not the expert on 284 brass, but my current procedure is to replicate factory 450 brass dimensions. The case wall thickness of 284 brass is heavier than 450 Hornady brass. The case mouth wall thickness on the Hornady brass is 0.013 inches +. Sized 450 Hornady brass, not expanded, I.D. measures 0.446 inches at the mouth. I have my 284 brass set up that once fired brass, sized, but not expanded, measures 0.445 inches I.D. at the mouth. UNREAMED brass measures 0.440 inches.

Another method is to take once fired 284 brass UNSIZED and ream it to .452" I.D. Either way, I end up with a case mouth wall thickness close to 450 Hornady brass.

Your case length of 1.703 inches is too long. Max is 1.700 inches. My factory brass measures 1.695 inches. This is what I trim too. Since this cartridge head spaces on the mouth, case length is critical. Also, excess length can drive up pressures by forcing the case mouth into the bore leade.

Now for the question -- where you using 284 brass when the extractor broke? I am not clear on that.

Others have much more experience with 284 brass than I do and they will chime in here.

ALSO, REDUCE YOUR CHARGES WITH 284 BRASS -- IT HAS LESS CASE CAPACITY THAN THE 450 HORNADY.

[Siringo]

Regarding the case length -- I use the 240 gr XTP Mag and it is seated to 2.065". This is where the cannilure is. That length should be OK.