Trouble at the Reloading Bench

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Re: Trouble at the Reloading Bench

Postby oldmanjeffers » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:23 pm

Hoot, I do resize my .284 brass after fire forming them, With a .284 FL sizer.
Here's the process I use

I cut down and trim .284 win brass to 1.703

Debure the inside of the case lightly and deburr the outside as normal

I use a LEE carbide 45ACP flare die to open the mouth of the case up just enough to be able to set a bullet on top of the case with out trying to balance it.

I then prime the cases

Next I charge the case's, after dropping a charge I set a bullet on top of the charged case to unsure I don't double charge and make a mess.

After all cases (50 at a time) are flared, primmed, charged and a bullet resting on top of them I put my LEE carbide 45acp bullet seating die in the press with the die ran all the way up while still having enough threads in the press to properly hold the die, And the bullet seater ran almost all the way down and seat the bullets to my OAL

After seating all the bullets to my OAL I lube them lightly, Install the .284 FL size die with the De-Capping pin removed and give them a pass through the 284 FL sizer to get rid of any bulge in the Unfired .284 brass.

I wipe them down with a clean rag and their ready to be fired, And yes they work very well!

For loading the fire formed brass, I don't need to flair the case mouth, deburr, or ream them at all, The last fifty I loaded I did run them through the FL sizer again but little to no contact was made, I DO put a side crimp on them and they work great.

I used the 225FTX for the first firing and the 250XTP for the second firing.
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Re: Trouble at the Reloading Bench

Postby wildcatter » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:43 pm

Siringo wrote:OK -- then wouldn't the diameter of the bullet be reduced? Have you pulled one of these bullets to see what the diameter is? Considering the taper of the case (the rear portion) the bullet is most likely a tapered -- I would think that is why it would be so hard to remove.


Could be they are reduced, but Holy Cow, if they are reduced and with his accuracy, I'm reducing everything I've got..t
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Re: Trouble at the Reloading Bench

Postby Hoot » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:37 pm

Siringo wrote:OK -- then wouldn't the diameter of the bullet be reduced? Have you pulled one of these bullets to see what the diameter is? Considering the taper of the case (the rear portion) the bullet is most likely a tapered -- I would think that is why it would be so hard to remove.


Yes, a .452 bullet winds up at .450 That is one of the reasons I'm dropping this process and going in the direction of reaming. It was interesting to play with though.

The process looks like this:

Image

If I go down to .475 at the mouth, just about all the bulge area is burnished by the die. It accelerates the further in you get. At .476 the bullet pulls a lot easier than at .475. I would rate .476 with the resizing die about the same tension as .476 with the taper crimp die. After shooting everything irons out. Unfortunately, brass is harder than copper jacketed lead. It would have had promise if the wall thinned by the resizing crimp action not the bullet.

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Re: Trouble at the Reloading Bench

Postby Siringo » Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:00 pm

Hoot -- just like in Black Powder shooting -- many bullets where bore size and not groove size. The explosion of the powder against the soft lead bullet would slug it into the bore. In the case of the jacket bullet -- I have heard that the pressure has to be in excess of 35K to do that. So, considering your loads were highly accurate -- I would have to guess that the bullet slugged into the bore well. Pressures had to be up there. Of course the 225 grain is not quite as stout as the 250 grain.

I agree -- reaming is the way to go. Lots safer!!!!
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Re: Trouble at the Reloading Bench

Postby Hoot » Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:03 am

Got home from a wedding Saturday and in my mailbox was a package from Hornady. Opened it up and discovered a new body, two spring clips and the slide guide. No seating plug. Didn't ask for the slide guide. Asked for a seating plug. Oh well, I'm grateful for the nice treatment nevertheless. In today's disposable society, it's nice to call somewhere and be able to get parts at all. Try that with one of the companies that Battenfield scarfed up.

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Re: Trouble at the Reloading Bench

Postby BD1 » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:38 pm

I've been watching this thread, and keeping my mouth shut. At this point I have to say, "I don't get it". I've been loading 250 grain FTXs in cut down 284 brass for the last 300 rounds or so with no issues and no need to ream. An hour ago I loaded 40 rounds of load work up using the 225 grain FTXs in .284 brass, all passed the "thunk" test with no problems. I'm currently thinking that something's different, Brass?, (mine's used), bullets?, (mine are 451.5 +/- .5), chamber?, ( I can seat a 225 grain FTX between 2.190 and 2.250 in cut down .284 cases and they all pass the thunk test). I don't know what's different. However, I never have to ream cut down .284 brass to seat and chamber FTX bullets. I've reamed some, but only to seat cast boolits sized to .453. At this point all of my jacketed, (FTX and Sierra 250 HPs), loadings are in .284 brass, and all of my cast loads are in Hornady factory brass. Either I got very lucky when I bought my upper, or you guys are making things more complicated than they need to be. I can definitely see the heel of the FTX bullets expressed through the .284 brass, but they chamber and extract just fine. As far as I know, all of the .450 Pro rounds where in cut down down .284 brass, and they all worked just fine?
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Re: Trouble at the Reloading Bench

Postby Hoot » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:06 pm

Yeah, its an enigma to me too. Oldmanjeffers has it working also. I noticed that the 225 FTX' with their low 2nd cannelure actually get wider at the heal. I suspect it is deformation from the impressing of that cannelure. Anyway, your guess is as good as mine. The rounds that wont thunk are binding on the heal bulge, not the mouth and not only do they not thunk, you can't push them in with the forward assist. I tried. I'm open to any explanation.

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Re: Trouble at the Reloading Bench

Postby BD1 » Sun Jul 04, 2010 6:58 pm

Yeah, the few I measured were 451.5 at the body and .452 at the heel. Maybe the answer is to run them through a size die to uniform them? A lot simpler than reaming brass for sure. I load all of the FTX bullets in .284 brass without any reaming, or expander die. So far they've are work just fine.
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Re: Trouble at the Reloading Bench

Postby oldmanjeffers » Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:32 am

BD1, Do you run your .284 loads back through the sizing die at any point?

I've read in books that running a loaded round back through a FL sizing die is a NO-NO, And one member here said something to the effect that is dangerous?

I do it, And think of my self as a fairly cautious person, I can not figure out what the danger is. Nothing can hit the primer, Their is not a lot of effort being made to reform the loaded round back into shape so the friction thing is out, I stop the press long before I cram the bullet into the powder, And always check my OAL after the resizing pass, If I'm doing something dangerous please let me know, And why.

Thanks Guys, Had an awesome 4th and can't wait to get out to shoot tomorrow.
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Re: Trouble at the Reloading Bench

Postby Hoot » Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:43 pm

An equally good question for BD1 is, are you, like oldmanjeffers, using a .284 die set. Perhaps the difference between your two results and mine is I'm using the Hornady 450b dies. I've already documented that Hornady brass is manufactured with narrower rims and extractor grooves than .284 specs. Perhaps their dies favor slightly smaller dimensions all around also. That having been said. Wall thickness is an absolute value and if .284 brass has thicker walls, something's gotta give. If not the walls, then then roomier dies and chamber, or else the bullet's gonna squash. Now maybe that smaller diameter bullet does not impede performance, but the bottom line is something's gotta give.

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