450Bushmaster.net

hawcer wrote:Not bad for first time results.... At least they all hit paper.
Any signs of over pressure with the higher charge amounts?...snip
snip... One other question...What was the range of the targets? 50 yards? 100 yards?

No signs of overpressure. In fact they felt like they could have used a little more. The perceived recoil impulse and muzzle blast felt stiffer with the 240 XTPs and 38gr Lil Gun than with the Swagers and 38gr Lil Gun. Mind you that was my impression. Almost like they don't obturate enough or they were more slippery in the bore. Since the brass were my life cycle study ones, I had my caliper and micrometer with me measuring them after each shot. Supra-web swelling was on par with other loads in that range of Lil Gun. I believe they could have easily gone to 40gr. In a couple of my benchrest/varmint rifles, I've experimented with MoS, WS2 and HBN coated bullets. They gave me that same feeling when fired as the brass swagers.

All my accuracy test pictures are from 100 yards. Concrete table. Rock BR1000 front rest and Protektor Rabbit ear rear bag. Soon, I'm going to have to start training offhand and offhand tree rest for deer season with this rig.

Hoot

Hawcer, do you think the 308 jackets might be heavier at the base than the 44s ? were the bullets Hoot fired of the 44 or 308 variety? It just seems that the lighter base would give ballistics. WOULD LIVE TO SEE THE ACCURACY OF YOUUR ORIGINAL 44 FLAT POINT COMPARED TO THE SPIRE. Thanks for all the inspiration. Look forward to this being a very looooooooong and interesting thread.

I sent Hoot the bullets that had the jackets made from 308 cases. I actually think the 308 jackets would be lighter in the tail section. since the internal dimensions diminish more toward the primer end.(brass thickens)this equals less lead in the tail end. The 308 cased bullets have a balance point very close to were the ogive starts.

450b-recluse wrote:Hawcer, do you think the 308 jackets might be heavier at the base than the 44s ? were the bullets Hoot fired of the 44 or 308 variety? It just seems that the lighter base would give ballistics. WOULD LIVE TO SEE THE ACCURACY OF YOUUR ORIGINAL 44 FLAT POINT COMPARED TO THE SPIRE. Thanks for all the inspiration. Look forward to this being a very looooooooong and interesting thread.

Judging from the NATO headstamp, I'd wager they were 7.62x51 (.308). If you use .45 ACP you're going to have to cut them down a little as they produce a monstrous 350gr bullet using pure lead. That is unless you want a 350gr bullet.



The .44 Mag produces one almost identical in weight to ones he sent, so they're a good choice also.

Someones having some fun....Those are looking good Hoot!

This is what it takes to get a 45 ACP down to 250gr. Starting to look like a fletchette



Hoot

So, what case are you liking better to convert to jackets? A mini lathe would come in real handy with putting some final touches on these.

hawcer wrote:So, what case are you liking better to convert to jackets? A mini lathe would come in real handy with putting some final touches on these.

So far, I like the .44 Mag case the best, but what do I know? I just started monkeying with the concept this weekend. I believe the rimmed cases offer us the closest approximation to a plain cup once the rim is turned off. The main reason for making a few right now is to run them through the water jug test. That's the other side of this equation.

Hoot

Hawcer, Did you get the .40S&W brass I sent?

oldmanjeffers wrote:Hawcer, Did you get the .40S&W brass I sent?

Yes I got it. Thanks. I am testing another theory with these bullets...I know I still owe you some. I was planning on sending a few to you of each type.

@Hoot
Trying out a different approach. With this one, I trimmed a 308 case to .700" and annealed as usual. Then I placed a lead 125gr 9mm bullet up side down in the "bullet jacket" and used a .395" diameter punch(I made from a old air hammer chisel) to seat the core and drive the the jacket up into the 243 SEATING die. The seating stem was removed.The "jacket" goes in the die up side down (headstamp up). To my amazement the core seated just fine and as a plus the rim of the cut down case pressed down into a taper. I used a steel rod to drive it back out of the die...not the best way...but it worked. Then I formed the ogive as I had done it before. The 125gr 9mm bullet was just the right amount of lead to just come to the tip of the bullet(where the brass stops) Below is a picture(not the greatest) but it kinda gives you the idea. This one measured out to 235.1gr. Since the seating die is a hair bigger in diameter I think the bullet might have cocked just slightly while seating the core...Maybe I'll try it in the sizing die to see if it works out any better or not. A cast lead 40cal bullet might work even better for a core,since it would be roughly the same diameter as the jacket ID...but I don't have any.