The "modifying a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die" thread

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Re: The "modifying a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die" thread

Postby BD1 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:35 pm

This is what I've been using with good success. The top of the crimp is .05 below the case mouth. I've since rounded the edges a little to try and get more brass life. Are we any closer to standardizing these dimensions? It can be a little problematic with cast boolits. You either have a groove located correctly to accept the crimp, or the crimp may push the OAL around if it lands on the corner of a lube groove. If the crimp is too far back from the case mouth it can even push the gas check off the back of light boolits. The boolit in the picture was designed with the lube groove located correctly for the crimp.
BD
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Re: The "modifying a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die" thread

Postby gunnut » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:03 pm

I'm going to try a different method. Correct me if my logic is flawed. I'm going to take .5 off the bottom of the lee 45-70 FCD collet. That puts the crimp right at the case mouth, Too close for head spacing. Then take .05 off the top of the crimp ridge to move the crimp back from the case mouth .05 and narrow the crimp to about .05. I can't measure the crimping ridge. But, it apears to be about .10
Would .05 back from the case mouth be enough for head spacing?
Would .05 be a wide enough crimp?
All comments welcome.
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Re: The "modifying a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die" thread

Postby lucasphi20 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:56 pm

Excuse my ignorance, but I was wondering what is the benefit of using the modified 45-70 crimp? I haven't decided to buy the 450 yet, I'm still researching it so I'm looking to see what the best reloading setup is. The only 450 BM dies I have seen are the Hornady's which include a seperate crimp, is there something wrong with the Hornady crimp? All my reloading dies are Lee, so I'm not familiar with the Hornady stuff, I really wish Lee would hurry up and make some. I contacted Lee about using a 284/45 COLT combo, obviously the 45 colt would not work for sizing as the cartridge is tapered. They said I could try to neck size, but may not work in the semiauto. Any thought or has anyone tried using the 45 COLT (or 454, 460, 45 ACP) Lee crimp? Wouldn't that be easier than modifying a 45-70?
“If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.”
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Re: The "modifying a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die" thread

Postby Siringo » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:10 am

Other than reducing the crimp width from .10 inches to .05 inches, I am leaving all else the same. I am using part of a lee bullet sizing die (the stem to push the bullets thru). Using spacers, I can adjust where to put the crimp based on the type of bullet. I sit the loaded cartridge atop the stem and then run it into the die.

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Re: The "modifying a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die" thread

Postby BD1 » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:07 pm

One issue I'm starting to see is that my cases are getting slightly shorter with use and resizing, similar to what happens with the .45acp. At .05 back from the case mouth we could get skimpy on the brass to headspace against, before the brass is too old to use. I have cases with 15 reloads on them that are still going strong. They measure around 1.692 at this point. I set my crimp die up for 1.70 cases
I'm thinking of taking another .01 or so off the collet so the cases stay usable down to 1.89 or so.

it's been my general experience that straight wall cases where you stuff an expander die/flare in the mouth get shorter over time just as bottle neck cases where you pull the expander button back through the neck get longer.
BD
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Re: The "modifying a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die" thread

Postby Siringo » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:06 pm

lucasphi20 wrote:Excuse my ignorance, but I was wondering what is the benefit of using the modified 45-70 crimp? I haven't decided to buy the 450 yet, I'm still researching it so I'm looking to see what the best reloading setup is. The only 450 BM dies I have seen are the Hornady's which include a seperate crimp, is there something wrong with the Hornady crimp? All my reloading dies are Lee, so I'm not familiar with the Hornady stuff, I really wish Lee would hurry up and make some. I contacted Lee about using a 284/45 COLT combo, obviously the 45 colt would not work for sizing as the cartridge is tapered. They said I could try to neck size, but may not work in the semiauto. Any thought or has anyone tried using the 45 COLT (or 454, 460, 45 ACP) Lee crimp? Wouldn't that be easier than modifying a 45-70?


I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but I think we give folks get the misconception that the Hornady setup is inadequate. Nothing can be further from the truth. Their dies are perfectly fine (other than that stupid little wire retainer). Remember that their dies are designed around .452 diameter bullets and some of us have been using .451 or even .450 bullets. When a diameter smaller than .452 is used, light jacketed bullets and plain lead bullets -- the crimping and neck tension provided through the Hornady dies is somewhat diminished or not as strong -- hence getting into the factory crimp die mods. If you use and load based on what Hornady developed, with the properly bullet diameter -- your good to go. Hornady does not believe there is a problem as this cartridge is loaded. Heck -- that is the accuracy standard we all shoot for (pun intended).

Regarding the crimp dies for the other calibers, I don't think the 450B cartridge will fully enter the die because of the case taper that the other rounds you mentions do not have.
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Re: The "modifying a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die" thread

Postby pitted bore » Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:14 pm

gunnut wrote:I'm going to try a different method. Correct me if my logic is flawed. I'm going to take .5 off the bottom of the lee 45-70 FCD collet. That puts the crimp right at the case mouth, Too close for head spacing. Then take .05 off the top of the crimp ridge to move the crimp back from the case mouth .05 and narrow the crimp to about .05. I can't measure the crimping ridge. But, it apears to be about .10
Would .05 back from the case mouth be enough for head spacing?
Would .05 be a wide enough crimp?
All comments welcome.
gunnut-
Your proposed modification might work, but you're correct in wondering about the width of the crimping ridge. If you guess wrong, taking off .05 might leave you with too narrow a crimp, or still too close to the case mouth.

A workable alternative might be the one I suggested - I think it got buried in my long-winded post above. That is, narrow the crimping ridge as you propose to 0.05". But, take off more than 0.5 of the collet and the die body. Then, adjust the location of the crimp on the cartridge body by inserting washer-shims between the shell holder and the collet. Different thicknesses of shims will allow you to position the crimp precisely where you want it. The technique allows you to adjust the crimp for different bullets with different crimp grooves, and for different seating depths.

It doesn't make for speedy reloading, because the shims have to be placed over each case after it's put into the shell holder, and then taken off after the bullet is seated. It may add about 5-10 seconds to the seating process for each cartridge.

This works for me, but itis possible that the technique has a flaw that I'm not aware of. More experienced persons will point this out, I hope.

--Bob
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Re: The "modifying a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die" thread

Postby gunnut » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:17 pm

Update! I change the collet this time. Took .5 off Die and collet. But, This time I took .05 off the inside top of the crimp ring. This moved the crimp back .05 from the case mouth and narrowed the crimp to about .05 and keeps it far enough away from the base of my "LIL" "O" 230s.
I'm hand loading these into my 450 bushmaster for single shots only while testing recoil. Loading a 230FMJ on top of 40grns. of LIL Gun using Pmc SRM primers.Seated to 2.10 oal. With a light side crimp I was getting sooting down the side and half way around the extractor groove. The heavy side crimp took care of all that. They shoot good. I'm shooting 25yds. at an indoor range. Hard to tell how accurate they are. They all go through the same hole. The hole just gets bigger. Probably just me. Image
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Re: The "modifying a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die" thread

Postby wildcatter » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:08 pm

I called Lee and as to the question, .." is the 45Colt/454 Casull Factory Crimp Die, a Stab Type, like the 45-70 FCD? The answer is NO. The Lee Factory Crimp Die uses the 'ol Roll Crimp.

..t
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Re: The "modifying a Lee 45-70 factory crimp die" thread

Postby thebrassnuckles » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:24 am

how are you guys removing the material? are your sending it out to a gunsmith or something or using tools at home?
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