450Bushmaster.net

I lite that -- "44 Hoot".

I forgot to mention, no special dies either. Resize/Decap = .308, Expander/Seat/Crimp = .44.
Oops, another kiss of death with the commercial manufacturers.

Hoot

Wow, I like that Hoot. I guess I will need 20 AR-15's for all the different calibers.

lucasphi20 wrote:Wow, I like that Hoot. I guess I will need 20 AR-15's for all the different calibers.

Yeah, it gets a little like eating cashews after a while. More esoteric discussions than true need.

Hoot

Darn -- I had to get out my dictionary Hoot!

Take a mag full of cut off 308 cartridges and then slap that mag sidways into the palm of your offside hand. Most of the cartridges, after that slap, pop out of the mag, rather quickly. The feed lips can be tweaked inboard, but then the bolt does not pick up the next round. One can make that altered mag go up into the mag well much further, but then you are always chasing Ghosts.

Don't get me wrong, I have wrung out this cartridge in both 44 and 45cal, and it's a good'en. But in keeping the AR as a given, with the goal of the least amount of Mods possible, the 308/44/45 is a tuffy to make happen. A dedicated mag would possibly be, a good way to address all the problems, associated with such a mod. Of course a one-off, could incorporate custom feed lips. In other words it could be done and as I always say,.."if you've got the money I have the time". If you do, do it, you will learn a ton about the system, becoming a better "Gun-Crank", in the offing and have a really good cartridge, that logistically makes allot of sense, in many areas of concern, to boot. You've only to get past the concerns or as my Father always said,.."to make Tiger soup, first ya gotta catch the Tiger".

..t

wildcatter wrote:Take a mag full of cut off 308 cartridges and then slap that mag sidways into the palm of your offside hand. Most of the cartridges, after that slap, pop out of the mag, rather quickly. The feed lips can be tweaked inboard, but then the bolt does not pick up the next round. One can make that altered mag go up into the mag well much further, but then you are always chasing Ghosts.

Don't get me wrong, I have wrung out this cartridge in both 44 and 45cal, and it's a good'en. But in keeping the AR as a given, with the goal of the least amount of Mods possible, the 308/44/45 is a tuffy to make happen. A dedicated mag would possibly be, a good way to address all the problems, associated with such a mod. Of course a one-off, could incorporate custom feed lips. In other words it could be done and as I always say,.."if you've got the money I have the time". If you do, do it, you will learn a ton about the system, becoming a better "Gun-Crank", in the offing and have a really good cartridge, that logistically makes allot of sense, in many areas of concern, to boot. You've only to get past the concerns or as my Father always said,.."to make Tiger soup, first ya gotta catch the Tiger".

..t

Good point ..t

I was totally consumed with pondering the challenge/cost of finding a .429 AR profiled blank and the cost of a reamer that I never considered the mag lip issue.
The best I could calculate, with the lesser case capacity and powders we use for the 450b, was achieving the same velocity and energy as the 450b, so it was kind of a diminishing returns idea anyway.

That having been said, seems like the 6.5 Grendel mag would work, given it's designed for a .445 diameter case.

Hoot

Hoot wrote:

wildcatter wrote:Take a mag full of cut off 308 cartridges and then slap that mag sidways into the palm of your offside hand. Most of the cartridges, after that slap, pop out of the mag, rather quickly. The feed lips can be tweaked inboard, but then the bolt does not pick up the next round. One can make that altered mag go up into the mag well much further, but then you are always chasing Ghosts.

Don't get me wrong, I have wrung out this cartridge in both 44 and 45cal, and it's a good'en. But in keeping the AR as a given, with the goal of the least amount of Mods possible, the 308/44/45 is a tuffy to make happen. A dedicated mag would possibly be, a good way to address all the problems, associated with such a mod. Of course a one-off, could incorporate custom feed lips. In other words it could be done and as I always say,.."if you've got the money I have the time". If you do, do it, you will learn a ton about the system, becoming a better "Gun-Crank", in the offing and have a really good cartridge, that logistically makes allot of sense, in many areas of concern, to boot. You've only to get past the concerns or as my Father always said,.."to make Tiger soup, first ya gotta catch the Tiger".

..t

Good point ..t

I was totally consumed with pondering the challenge/cost of finding a .429 AR profiled blank and the cost of a reamer that I never considered the mag lip issue.
The best I could calculate, with the lesser case capacity and powders we use for the 450b, was achieving the same velocity and energy as the 450b, so it was kind of a diminishing returns idea anyway.

That having been said, seems like the 6.5 Grendel mag would work, given it's designed for a .445 diameter case.

Hoot

Hey, don't be discouraged, it's just going to take allot to git'er done. Think about this, I've had them both running in the AR system alright, but the real winner is to put them in a bolt gun. Very little has to be done to the action and the performance if wonderfully great. Something else to think about, is the full length version of the cartridge, 2" or 2.5" long brass. Git ya one of those $200 VZ-24's and the proper barrel, a bunch of Hornady elliptical expanders, from 30cal-45cal, and go for it. The only other thing you'll need is a chamber reamer and a go-gage, and I've got both, if'n ya want to give'er a go. FYI, I've done them on a custom basis for some time now, in bolt guns, but also the M1a and the M1 Garand, I gotta tell ya, they really do fly!

The thought about the Grendel mag, might work, but the taper could be all wrong. So, you won't know until you get a mag and try my slap-the-palm-of-your-hand-test, to see if they pop out too easily..t

Mr. Wildcatter, sir,

What do you think our chances are of getting a .450 BM necked down to .338? I'm thinking if the base cartridge can push a .451" 250 grainer to 2200 fps, it can do the same on a .338" pill. Or would we lose case capacity in the necking-down process?

I'd also suggest loadings for 225, 215, 210, 200, 185, and 160 grainers. .338" is a versatile bore, with a wide spectrum of BC and SDs, and I'd love to see it in an AR-sized package.

Best,
JBR

johnbearross wrote:Mr. Wildcatter, sir,

What do you think our chances are of getting a .450 BM necked down to .338? I'm thinking if the base cartridge can push a .451" 250 grainer to 2200 fps, it can do the same on a .338" pill. Or would we lose case capacity in the necking-down process?

I'd also suggest loadings for 225, 215, 210, 200, 185, and 160 grainers. .338" is a versatile bore, with a wide spectrum of BC and SDs, and I'd love to see it in an AR-sized package.

Best,
JBR

The quick answer are the chances are 100%. I am in the process of doing it and all the other calibers you can name. All the legal work is done and all that's needed is the time to do one at a time, until completion.

As for a 250gr 45 cal, going the same speed as a 250gr .338. That doesn't automatically slice across the same line. Keep in mind, I get into trouble when I make statements that I can make a 250 grainer 45cal,go faster that a 250gr bullet in a thirty cal weapon. That statement makes some very mad at me, but then again they haven't taken into account the the thirty call, in my oration, has nearly twice the length of the same weight bullet in the 45 cal.

Your right about the decreased case capacity and coupled to the bearing length of the 338, it might not go as fast as the 45 and in any bottle neck, bolt thrust is always of paramount concern. So, much is to be contemplated before we can make suggestions. The good news is, i will do it and offer starting loads to boot. Hang in there champ, I've got calibers coming from 530 down to 17, pistols for all those calibers and tons of other stuff. We estimate more than 3x times the total weapons Browning introduced, but only time will tell if we can get that all done. We have to deal with a serious time killer, that did not plague Browning and it's called the Lawyers..t