Scope Height. Is higher better?

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Re: Scope Height. Is higher better?

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sat Oct 08, 2011 5:45 pm

BayouBob wrote:The height of the scope's line of sight over the line of the barrel can let you adjust the scope for convergence of the two lines at a longer distance before running out of scope adjustment which I think is what Dog was referring to but it won't affect the actual "range" of the bullet.

And BB nailed EXACTLY what I was referring to.
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Re: Scope Height. Is higher better?

Postby BD1 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:36 pm

I don't believe the height of the scope above the bore can have any effect at all on the "range" of a rifle. It has a very minor effect on your ability to "sight in" to longer ranges, an extra inch of scope height is buying you less than 30 additional yards at 300 yards with most common cartridges. The thing that buys you the ability to adjust your cross hairs to a point of impact at significantly longer distances is to take the axis of your sights out of parallel to the bore by raising the rear of the scope. This is what "long range" bases are about, the rear of the base is taller than the front of the base, which causes the bore to be angled up relative to the line of sight. All bullets leave all barrels subject to the law of gravity, (at least all bullets fired on earth). If the barrel is parallel to the surface of the earth when fired the bullet will fall towards the earth at 32 feet per second, squared. How far it gets before it hits the ground is determined only by how fast it travels along it's course. We get around this by sighting in our rifles with the bore angled up slightly relative to the line of sight through the sights. The bullet then starts out on an angle rising above the surface of the earth, still subject to the law of gravity, it crosses the line of sight one time relatively close to the firearm, (25 to 40 yards out), and then falls back down through the line of sight at some more distant point that we choose by "zeroing" the scope to that distance. Most scopes have some limited amount of vertical adjustment possible. The long range bases just start you out with 20 moa or so "up angle" built in. The down side of this is that the scope generally has the same limited amount of possible adjustment down, thus with a long range base installed you may not be able to get your point of impact to the cross hairs at 100 yards. Anyone who's played around with iron sighted battle rifles from WW1 or WW2 has experienced this. The smellys had ladder sights on them good for several thousand meters, but the closest you can get the original ammo through the issue sights at 100 yards is about 4" high @ 100 yards. Same with the Swedes.

I learned this from Phil Smelzly, an excellent physics teacher I had in High School. He had made an electro magnetic trigger and target holder that allowed us to position a barrel exactly level and then fire the gun at the same instant that the target was dropped. It didn't matter if it was a dart gun shooting a teddy bear at 20 feet, or a .22 shooting at an iron ball at 25 yards. In both cases, if the gun was aimed level and fired at the same instant that the target was dropped, the projectile would hit the target every time.

I'm showing my age here as I don't believe they let you play with guns in High School physics classes these days? When I attended Penn State in the 70's I kept my shotgun in my dorm room and carried it out quite openly every afternoon during the season to hunt pheasants in the fields beyond Beaver Stadium.
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Re: Scope Height. Is higher better?

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:07 pm

Thanx for the input and feedback. I think I'm just gonna leave it where it is for now. Maybe after some range time, I will revisit the issue! Thanx again!
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Re: Scope Height. Is higher better?

Postby Hoot » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:41 am

Texas Sheepdawg wrote:This scope is a Simmons Whitetail Classic 6-20X50mm with front focus, and optional sunshade. I loved the 4-12X50mm scope on my 7mm Rem Mag, I just had to get one like it. I found this one on sale at Midway for $109.00 regularly $250.00. Awesome scope! I may buy another.


I ordered one and it arrived yesterday.

I'm pretty skeptical of low end scopes, but all I can say is I was surprisingly impressed, at least from the visual performance. Looking out across the farmland below me in the early evening, the image is crisp and clear all the way out to the edge. The duplex cross-hair is sharp and in focus. It gathered light as dusk was approaching good enough to see a pheasant on the edge of a sumac stand about an eighth of a mile away. Now, all that doesn't speak to the mechanical performance once mounted, but FWIW, I secured it in some rings in the shop vise and looking at a poster I have with concentric squares at the other end of the basement, I ran the az-el knobs through their range of rotation and it at least tracked a near perfect square. For 50% off the going price and costing $110.00, it is starting off looking like a good value, low end scope. i didn't measure the eye relief, but IIRC, it was the average distance you'd expect. IE not oddly long or short. It has a Nitrogen gas port on the bottom. Not sure how many Midway has or for how long before they sell out. Zoomed all the way out, it's a little too powerful for a deer hunting scope where I woods hunt, but it would be great for woodchucks or gophers. I'll be changing my scopes over to deer hunting in the next week or so and perhaps, before I put the 3-12x52 on the 450b, I'll mount this new one and give it a magazine worth of tough love.

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Re: Scope Height. Is higher better?

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:28 pm

I finished the 6.5 Grendel Upper today, except for the carrier, and mounted the scope and took it out on the back porch. I really was impressed with the clarity and light gathering too. Can't wait to get my Grendel finished!
Maybe I can post a pic or two later this weekend.
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Re: Scope Height. Is higher better?

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:16 pm

Hoot wrote:
Texas Sheepdawg wrote:This scope is a Simmons Whitetail Classic 6-20X50mm with front focus, and optional sunshade. I loved the 4-12X50mm scope on my 7mm Rem Mag, I just had to get one like it. I found this one on sale at Midway for $109.00 regularly $250.00. Awesome scope! I may buy another.


That's a very good value Robin! I don't need anymore scopes and I may buy one myself. Are they currently on sale for that much, or was that a past sale?

Hoot

And don't forget that there is a Rebate going on with Simmons right now. Don't miss out on this deal! :mrgreen:
http://assets.academy.com/mgen/34/10161 ... 0,500&pg=1
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Re: Scope Height. Is higher better?

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:17 pm

Hoot wrote:
Texas Sheepdawg wrote:This scope is a Simmons Whitetail Classic 6-20X50mm with front focus, and optional sunshade. I loved the 4-12X50mm scope on my 7mm Rem Mag, I just had to get one like it. I found this one on sale at Midway for $109.00 regularly $250.00. Awesome scope! I may buy another.


I ordered one and it arrived yesterday.

I'm pretty skeptical of low end scopes, but all I can say is I was surprisingly impressed, at least from the visual performance. Looking out across the farmland below me in the early evening, the image is crisp and clear all the way out to the edge. The duplex cross-hair is sharp and in focus. It gathered light as dusk was approaching good enough to see a pheasant on the edge of a sumac stand about an eighth of a mile away. Now, all that doesn't speak to the mechanical performance once mounted, but FWIW, I secured it in some rings in the shop vise and looking at a poster I have with concentric squares at the other end of the basement, I ran the az-el knobs through their range of rotation and it at least tracked a near perfect square. For 50% off the going price and costing $110.00, it is starting off looking like a good value, low end scope. i didn't measure the eye relief, but IIRC, it was the average distance you'd expect. IE not oddly long or short. It has a Nitrogen gas port on the bottom. Not sure how many Midway has or for how long before they sell out. Zoomed all the way out, it's a little too powerful for a deer hunting scope where I woods hunt, but it would be great for woodchucks or gophers. I'll be changing my scopes over to deer hunting in the next week or so and perhaps, before I put the 3-12x52 on the 450b, I'll mount this new one and give it a magazine worth of tough love.

Hoot

They have extended the sale to the end of November. Remember this is $140.00 off of retail price. I ordered another one today. I have not decided on what rifle to put it on, but I am considering the 450 Bushmaster or my M77 7mm Rem mag. Midway says that these scopes are on clearance. These are new, ITB and not refurbs. And with the $20.00 rebate, its a fantastic deal.
http://assets.academy.com/mgen/34/10161 ... 0,500&pg=1
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Re: Scope Height. Is higher better?

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:28 am

Hoot wrote:
Texas Sheepdawg wrote:This scope is a Simmons Whitetail Classic 6-20X50mm with front focus, and optional sunshade. I loved the 4-12X50mm scope on my 7mm Rem Mag, I just had to get one like it. I found this one on sale at Midway for $109.00 regularly $250.00. Awesome scope! I may buy another.


I ordered one and it arrived yesterday.

I'm pretty skeptical of low end scopes, but all I can say is I was surprisingly impressed, at least from the visual performance. Looking out across the farmland below me in the early evening, the image is crisp and clear all the way out to the edge. The duplex cross-hair is sharp and in focus. It gathered light as dusk was approaching good enough to see a pheasant on the edge of a sumac stand about an eighth of a mile away. Now, all that doesn't speak to the mechanical performance once mounted, but FWIW, I secured it in some rings in the shop vise and looking at a poster I have with concentric squares at the other end of the basement, I ran the az-el knobs through their range of rotation and it at least tracked a near perfect square. For 50% off the going price and costing $110.00, it is starting off looking like a good value, low end scope. i didn't measure the eye relief, but IIRC, it was the average distance you'd expect. IE not oddly long or short. It has a Nitrogen gas port on the bottom. Not sure how many Midway has or for how long before they sell out. Zoomed all the way out, it's a little too powerful for a deer hunting scope where I woods hunt, but it would be great for woodchucks or gophers. I'll be changing my scopes over to deer hunting in the next week or so and perhaps, before I put the 3-12x52 on the 450b, I'll mount this new one and give it a magazine worth of tough love.

Hoot

They have extended the sale on this scope through the end of the year.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/746570 ... icle-matte

109.00 is not a bad price, and if I had been on my toes yesterday, I could have got it for $94.99.
They had it on a special sale.
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Re: Scope Height. Is higher better?

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:47 pm

I got another Christmas Present!!
Nikko Stirling
4X16X50mm 30mm tube!
Thanx Carol!!
Image
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Re: Scope Height. Is higher better?

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Mon Jan 02, 2012 11:06 am

Today, Thumper has a new set of optics. The Nikko Stirling 4X16X50mm 30mm tube Mil Dot scope. After the picture, thumper also got a KNS non rotating pin upgrade!

Image


Here is the Trio so far.
Bushmaster XM15 E2S 5.56 HBar carbine with the ATN MK 350 night vision.
Gretchen 6.5 Grendel Custom 24"AA with Simmons 6.5X20X50mm AO scope
Thumper 450 Bushmaster 20" with Nikko Stirling 4X16X50mm 30mm tube Mil Dot scope.

Image
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