First loading of 450b

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First loading of 450b

Postby slowpoke » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:00 pm

I shot one of my first loadings of 450 this past weekend and saw something I never have before. I only shot one round and it hit the 6" steel target at 100 yards. The load was 200 grain FTX with 40 grains of H110 and CCI#41.Bullets were seated just to cover the cannelure. I am using Hornady dies and crimped the bullets somewhat lightly with the taper crimp die, similar to the way the Hornady factory ammo was. But, my question or observation that made me stop was a lot of black in the small diameter between the rim and the case wall where the extractor would go. Everything else about the case looked completely normal. Any ideas?
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Re: First loading of 450b

Postby Hoot » Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:14 pm

Around these parts, that's referred to as sooting. It occurs when the chamber pressure does not rise fast enough to seal the case against the chamber wall before some of the burned propellant leaks back around and deposits upon it. Primary cause is a powder that burns too slow for the bullet weight it's propelling. Sound like something you heard before? ;) Some times, laying on a more aggressive crimp will help hold the bullet back a small amount of time longer and I mean small. Though slight, that small amount of time will allow the pressure a few microseconds, perhaps one millisecond more time to ramp up a little higher. Some times, it doesn't help. It's not uncommon to see sooting even with faster powders like Lil Gun, if the bullet is real light, such as the 160 and 185gr C.O.P. bullets or some times with heavier bullets with too light a crimp. You can try a more aggressive crimp and see if it helps, or go with a faster powder.

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Re: First loading of 450b

Postby slowpoke » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:51 pm

I guess I had an idea that was the case, but why was the soot only present around the extractor groove portion of the case. Wouldn't the soot have to travel past the case walls to get there? I'm fairly new to reloading and very new to the 450 so please don't be afraid to dumb it down for me or even draw me a picture :oops:
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Re: First loading of 450b

Postby Hoot » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:23 am

slowpoke wrote:I guess I had an idea that was the case, but why was the soot only present around the extractor groove portion of the case. Wouldn't the soot have to travel past the case walls to get there? I'm fairly new to reloading and very new to the 450 so please don't be afraid to dumb it down for me or even draw me a picture :oops:


Just to set the record straight, sooting is not the end of the world with this caliber. That's what tumblers are for.

IMO, the change in landscape over the smooth uninterrupted walls of the case in front, causes the gas to slow down and deposit there. Think snow drifts or sediment in a creek. It's also the least example of sooting, meaning it can be more severe. I've had loads where the sooting was pretty evenly distributed everywhere and a few where there's just a small ring of it near the mouth. The latter being the most common form and not necessarily indicative of a problem.

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Re: First loading of 450b

Postby pitted bore » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:20 pm

slowpoke-
Hoot's almost certainly correct in diagnosing your observations as sooting, resulting from low pressure. With the 200-grain FTX and H110, you're working with a combination for which there are no published data based on pressure testing. The Lyman manual has a starting load of 41.0 and a max load of 44.5 of H110, but these loads were developed with the Barnes 200-grain solid copper pointy bullet. (They did use your CCI #41 primer.)

The Western Powder manual used Accurate #9, Enforcer, and 4100 powder with the 200-grain FTX bullet. If you can find and use these powders, you'll have some data on which to base loading this bullet.

Good luck,
--Bob
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Re: First loading of 450b

Postby slowpoke » Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:56 pm

Well, I went back and tried again with much better success this time. I changed to the 225 grain FTX and Lil Gun powder. I started at 39 grains and went up to 41 grains going up 1/2 grain each time, loading 4 of each charge. I am seating to 2.122" and taper crimping to what calipers show to be 0.474". There was no soot on any cases and the accuracy was very pleasing, especially the 41 grain load. The gun is a Remington R-15 VTR and I have a Leupold VX3 2.5-8x36 scope on it. It shot a three hole four shot group at 100 yards with the three holes touching. Gun season starts here on Saturday and I look forward to deflating a whitetail with it.

Just for what its worth, I bought a Limbsaver recoil pad to replace the plastic meat tenderizer the gun came with. Man, what a difference!
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Re: First loading of 450b

Postby Hoot » Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:09 pm

slowpoke wrote:Well, I went back and tried again with much better success this time. I changed to the 225 grain FTX and Lil Gun powder. I started at 39 grains and went up to 41 grains going up 1/2 grain each time, loading 4 of each charge. I am seating to 2.122" and taper crimping to what calipers show to be 0.474". There was no soot on any cases and the accuracy was very pleasing, especially the 41 grain load. The gun is a Remington R-15 VTR and I have a Leupold VX3 2.5-8x36 scope on it. It shot a three hole four shot group at 100 yards with the three holes touching. Gun season starts here on Saturday and I look forward to deflating a whitetail with it.

Just for what its worth, I bought a Limbsaver recoil pad to replace the plastic meat tenderizer the gun came with. Man, what a difference!


Good going Poke! My buddy from work and his two sons just got home from opening weekend ahead of the approaching snow storm and what was an area I referred to as "Deer Heaven" turned out to be pretty barren after last winter's record setting snowfall and extreme cold plus the return of the wolf population in the area. After repeated seasons with populations that warranted one deer of either sex and up to 5 bonus tags and many hunters I saw hauling out trailers full of does, the DNR reduced limits to one buck per hunter and no bonus tags. His one son saw 2 does, one with a wolf shadowing it and the rest of them saw zip. I don't feel as bad about not getting to go this year as I hunt up in that area as well. Hopefully, you will fare better and we'll be graced with pictures of your success.

Good Luck!

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Re: First loading of 450b

Postby Al in Mi » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:19 pm

FWIW, I had the same sooting yesterday shooting factory rounds from my 16". I never have paid much attention to it in the past, just keep poking holes close to each other on paper and I'm the happy camper!!!
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Re: First loading of 450b

Postby slowpoke » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:20 pm

Image
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Re: First loading of 450b

Postby slowpoke » Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:40 pm

Image

Not sure why the first one only shows the left half of the target, but here is the best group. Not sure why the 40.5 grain group did so poorly, but the extra half grain brought it back in.
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