I think I may have found a good load

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I think I may have found a good load

Postby PJames » Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:53 pm

Tested some loads in my Brownells 16" 1:20 twist barrel with my own muzzle brake I built. Pictures soon of my brake. I am very pleased with the brake and load so far. Have yet to chrono the load yet. I first wanted to find an accurate load. I worked up from 39grs and stopped at 42 grains. Primers and brass looked very good.

225gr FTX over 41.6grs of W296 5 shots @ 150 yards.
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225gr FTX over 42grs of W296 5 shots @ 150 yards.
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Last edited by PJames on Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I think I may have found a good load

Postby commander faschisto » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:56 pm

Nice!! And that's at 150 yards, too...you definitely found the sweet spot for your rig. Good info, also, for using W296 in the 450b. If you get it over the chrono, let us know how it does.
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Re: I think I may have found a good load

Postby Al in Mi » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:07 pm

id stop right there!!!
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Re: I think I may have found a good load

Postby PJames » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:36 pm

commander faschisto wrote:Nice!! And that's at 150 yards, too...you definitely found the sweet spot for your rig. Good info, also, for using W296 in the 450b. If you get it over the chrono, let us know how it does.


I will soon, going to load up more of the 42gr load. I want to test them to 300 yards.
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Re: I think I may have found a good load

Postby Hoot » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:07 am

Without the benefit of a chronograph, you don't know the velocity difference between the 41.6 and 42 grain loads. Groups are affected by more than just velocity, IE having a good run of shooting discipline or less wind. Crosswind not only influences left and right drift, it also effects vertical dispersion. Right to left = higher, Left to right = lower in a right hand twist barrel. I've worked with W296 in the 450b and that small a variation of charge weight's influence can be lost in the background noise of other influences. Look at percentage of total charge weight change. This caliber already has a reputation of varying velocity within the same charge weight by as much as 100 fps. If the 225 FTX and a 16" 1:16 bore likes a specific velocity to deliver good groups, changing the charge weight less than 1% may not be the deciding factor when the velocity naturally changes 2% within the same charge. That's also assuming the temperature is the same from one range session to the next. A 42 gr charge can deliver the same velocity as 41.6 just from the change in morning temps to afternoon temps.

What I'm trying to say is be careful extrapolating too much from a small data sample. Historically, the 225 FTX seems to be a match made in heaven in this caliber. It does well with a lot of powders and an accuracy node comes around about every 200-250 fps change. Regardless of 41.6 or 42 you've hung your hat on a good bullet choice and that's always a great start. Enjoy...

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Re: I think I may have found a good load

Postby winman1550 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:48 am

First let me say I'm not a reloader. I do read with a learning interest most of the posts about guys trying this bullet and that bullet, this powder and that powder and how much of each. As an observer, some I understand and some not so much. My question is, if with my 18" Tromix barrel I'm getting groups like the second picture in the above post at 200 yards with factory ammo as I'm sure others are, why all the experimentation? I know I'm pretty happy with my results and know I'm not going to get 5 shots all in the same hole at that distance no matter what I do. Using the chronographs and checking to see if I'm gaining or losing 100 fps between bullets, powders, primers etc... Don't seem like much difference? Is it for the fun? Cost savings? Or just something to do. Just curios.

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Re: I think I may have found a good load

Postby plant_one » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:55 am

Al in Mi wrote:id stop right there!!!



amen! load developement looks done to me ! Lol
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Re: I think I may have found a good load

Postby plant_one » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:11 am

winman1550 wrote:First let me say I'm not a reloader. I do read with a learning interest most of the posts about guys trying this bullet and that bullet, this powder and that powder and how much of each. As an observer, some I understand and some not so much. My question is, if with my 18" Tromix barrel I'm getting groups like the second picture in the above post at 200 yards with factory ammo as I'm sure others are, why all the experimentation? I know I'm pretty happy with my results and know I'm not going to get 5 shots all in the same hole at that distance no matter what I do. Using the chronographs and checking to see if I'm gaining or losing 100 fps between bullets, powders, primers etc... Don't seem like much difference? Is it for the fun? Cost savings? Or just something to do. Just curios.

Greg



the issue is greg, when it comes to reloading - EVERY firearm, or at least every barrel - is a little bit different.

no two barrels, even produced from the same production run , are going to have identical rifle twists. there's always some minor variation. additionally relatively minute differences in profile thickness, or metal consistency, can cause harmonic changes, etc.

this also applies to chamber cuts. Every chamber is a little bit different - even SAMMI standards have a +/- tolerance built into them.

so when you get down to reloading information re: charge weights and whatnot, the published information is a guide. that data is only concrete for the test barrel the publisher used to acquire the data and with the specific powder lot used for testing. ANytime you change a single component, the recipe is going to change. Commercial ammo manufacturer's test powder every time they get a new lot and adjust each batch of ammo produced with it to the proper pressure and then verify that the rest of the data holds true (velocity, consistency, etc) before they load it in bulk. This is why sometimes you'll find that even your favorite factory load sometimes shoots wonky if you get a bad lot.

so for us reloaders - doing load development with varying charge weights from min-max published data is a way to not only safety check that published data is good for OUR rifle, but also for accuracy. Every powder/bullet/brass/primer combination has a (or several) sweet spots where ignition produces a very consistent velocity. We call these sweet spots "nodes" - and then pray that these nodes match into our barrels harmonic timing too. By doing tests with small changes in powder charge, but keeping everything else consistent it allows us to identify these ES/SD nodes as well as searching out the magic velocity needed for our harmonics. It also allows us to watch for signs of pressure getting too high by reading our primers (more like reading tea leaves in some respects compared to the pressure test barrels commercial ammo mfgs use) to know if a load is still safe to shoot in our guns.


so while it may seem a bit of voodoo and waste of good projectiles, and time, its a way for us to fine tune a bullet's performance in our individual firearm. We as reloaders can often produce a significantly more consistent load than commercial manufacturers produce, as well as being able to match to the specific harmonic profile of our individual barrels.

because of the 450's short stubby bullets, we're likely not often going to find a 200 yd magic 1 hole group like you can with many other calibers, but this is one aspect of shooting that once you adopt the hobby of reloading, you're often going to get stuck on tinkering until you get things as good as they can be :)


as far as chrono's go - knowing your velocity and your consistency (ES & SD) is always a good piece of information to have - even with factory ammo. You need accurate velocity information to do trajectory calculations easier and save ammo from getting out in the field and figuring out your drops by clicking away. Not that we should trust that data to be 100% without verification, but just like bore sighting - it'll usually get you in the ballpark.


HTH
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Re: I think I may have found a good load

Postby Al in Mi » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:22 am

winman1550 wrote:First let me say I'm not a reloader. I do read with a learning interest most of the posts about guys trying this bullet and that bullet, this powder and that powder and how much of each. As an observer, some I understand and some not so much. My question is, if with my 18" Tromix barrel I'm getting groups like the second picture in the above post at 200 yards with factory ammo as I'm sure others are, why all the experimentation? I know I'm pretty happy with my results and know I'm not going to get 5 shots all in the same hole at that distance no matter what I do. Using the chronographs and checking to see if I'm gaining or losing 100 fps between bullets, powders, primers etc... Don't seem like much difference? Is it for the fun? Cost savings? Or just something to do. Just curios.

Greg


for me, I'm just not a fan of any FTX bullets for hunting period.
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Re: I think I may have found a good load

Postby Hoot » Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:23 am

winman1550 wrote:...snip... Is it for the fun? Cost savings? Or just something to do. Just curios.

Greg


D) All the above ;)

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