Reloading 450 bushmanster

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Reloading 450 bushmanster

Postby justbob » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:21 am

The day of reckoning has arrived. The Upper has arrived. The cases dies bullets and everything is ready. No how do you reload a straight walled rebated case. Any thoughts.
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Re: Reloading 450 bushmanster

Postby Hoot » Mon Sep 18, 2017 6:34 am

Welcome aboard Bob!

You didn't say what your reloading history is. That drives what advice to give you other than what's in the reloading handbook you should have gotten if you've never reloaded. When I got my first 450b, I had already been reloading for 30 years, so I needed less tutoring.

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Re: Reloading 450 bushmanster

Postby justbob » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:20 am

Been reloading since 75. primarily 38/357 257 Roberts, 308, 44 mag. Have not had good success with 45 ACP. (Shot military teams so 45 was not a priority) The straight walled case with taper crimp is new to me. Have read what little is available. Have the Hornady manual. Talked to Hornady people about how to crimp.

When working up a load I Generally start with a mid range load and slowly work up to find the most accurate loads. Interested in accurate reliable loads. I have never been enamored with super fast worm burners. Found them to be less accurate and do not add enough to justify the powder and wear on the rifle. When I find the load combination for my rifle/pistol I stay with it. Have been shooting the same 357 mag load and 257 Roberts since the Late 70s. Have found no reason to change.

Concerns are primarily the taper crimp. Semi auto. (20 inch barrel) I am sure there are some anomalies with this round and I donot like to learn the hard way.

Am looking at WW 296 or H110 as powder. Primarily because those are two powders I have. Since I am not reloading that much hunting pistol anymore I need to use those powders up. Open to any other suggestions. I think a slower burning powder might work better in the longer barrel. Suggestions on powders welcome.

Will be loading 250 grain for pig. Wondering about maybe using a 230 FMJ for practice and plinking.
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Re: Reloading 450 bushmanster

Postby plant_one » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:09 pm

w296 and h110 are the same powder, with different labels on the bottle. burn rates may vary slightly but thats normally attributed to lot to lot variance and not so much the label itself. i have yet to figure out why they haven't done away with one or the other yet and just keep the most popular label. its not like they try to hide that its the same powder or anything. feel free to e-mail hodgon to confirm.

one thing i'm sure you're aware of with h110/w296 since you're a 38/357 mag/44 mag guy.... as you approach 100% case fill you can go from ok to scary pressure quickly. its still a very safe powder choice, just know that caution is advised the closer you get to max loads. just dont use large charge weight increases at the top end and you'll be fine.

as for anomolies to the caliber - one of the strange things thats gonna be more like pistol reloading than rifle is you'll rarely if ever need to trim this brass. the caliber isnt known for stretching brass like your bob or the 308 will.


most of us are taper crimping to around .475 ish - measured as close as you can get to the mouth without falling off the end of the brass. some a little more crimp, some a little less. it'll depend on the bullet, but thats the general ballpark. dont get crazy with it - you crimp too much and you can have headspace issues since the caliber headspaces off the case mouth and not a rim like you're used to with your straight walled pistols.
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Re: Reloading 450 bushmanster

Postby justbob » Mon Sep 18, 2017 2:29 pm

Thanks for the input. Understand the criticality of the crimp. just needed a number. Good to know about the 110/296. powder issue.
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Re: Reloading 450 bushmanster

Postby Hoot » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:13 pm

With the 230 fmj's, I've had a hard time getting as firm a hold from the taper crimp, given their smooth sides and shortness. They're fine for busting pumpkins or water melons but not so rewarding trying to work them up for an accurate load. Lotta velocity variation, especially with the slower powders such as W296 and H110. Not so bad with Lil Gun. Try to avoid repeated slam-chambering, extract, slam-chambering, extract of the same round as the inertia can make them pull a little. Use a hot primer like Rem 7 1/2 or WSR. My experience with the 230's has been that the faster they fly, the tighter the groups. H110/W296 are good powders for the 250 FTX as is Lil Gun. Watch Midway for factory second bulk 200 or 225 FTX bullets. Both are a joy to shoot MOA or better groups and you can taper crimp down into their cannelure, for a good hold upon them.

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Re: Reloading 450 bushmanster

Postby MOOSE EARS » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:29 pm

If it goes into battery(chambers a round), you have to shoot it. You can't be puttin' em in the hole and not sending them home! Go ahead and get some Lil Gun and quit fooling around. 296/H110 are not the best powder for the 450BM. LilGun is the winner, the rest are just subs for the real stuff! Have fun and be safe! 230FMJ's at 2500fps are nasty!
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Re: Reloading 450 bushmanster

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:54 pm

With the 230FMJs, they seem to perform okay with me as long as I use a LSC crimp with a taper crimp. I pushed the crap out of them during my tests and I want all to know that I no longer load them like I did during my penetration tests. After I proved I could penetrate that steel plate, and after using those loads in my single shot and bolt action and scaring myself silly with 2700 FPS, I've decided that I can reduce the powder charge back to around 40.5-41.5 of Lil Gun so I can shoot them in all three rifles. Warning. DO NOT USE MY test data for single shots or bolt actions especially with 1:16 twist barrels. I had pressure signs that I consider very dangerous including failures to eject. It took a long dowel and some moderate tapping to free them from my New Englander single shot.
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Re: Reloading 450 bushmanster

Postby justbob » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:50 am

Are the velocities you quoted safe for an AR. I note that you are using them in a single shot and a bolt gun.

Also when talking with a guy on another site, he indicated that lower velocities tend to shrink the case while the higher velocities cause the cases to remain stable and do not require trimming.

Thoughts.
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Re: Reloading 450 bushmanster

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:37 am

justbob wrote:Are the velocities you quoted safe for an AR. I note that you are using them in a single shot and a bolt gun.

Also when talking with a guy on another site, he indicated that lower velocities tend to shrink the case while the higher velocities cause the cases to remain stable and do not require trimming.

Thoughts.

I'm referring to my R&D with the 230 Grain FMJ RNs and flat points that I pushed to 2500 FPS in my 20" AR 15. Do NOT use those loads in a single shot or bolt action. Nor would you want to use the load in a 1:16" twist barrel.
Slow them down!!! Also, I'm using the LSC. It makes a difference.
I wouldn't go over 41.0 grains of Lil Gun in either set up. The reason is the AR uses some of that gas pressure to cycle the BCG. In a single shot or bolt action, there's no relief and the added pressures from a 1:16 twist are going to affect your pressure and FPS. I would dare to say that I'm gonna still get around 2500 FPS with less powder when using a single shot or bolt action especially with the 1:16 twist. That's just my theory so far. I've got to do the actual R&D on the range to prove it. And I haven't done that yet.
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