Load suggestion for Horn 245 out to 100 yds for 16 year old.

[Hoot]

How much speed could I expect to lose with the 36gr load vs the 38gr load?

Barrel length does matter where OBT is concerned.

36gr=2028fps Lower OBT Accuracy Node but way under-utilized for the caliber
37gr=2079fps
38gr=2129fps
39gr=2179fps
39.8-2218fps Upper OBT Accuracy Node and a good match for the caliber overall

This is important: These are only Predictions. QuickLoad errs on the side of caution, so the actual velocities may be a little lower.

Hoot

[cljohnson24]

Ok thanks. I was getting 2165fps actual chrono avg out of his barrel with the 35.4 LG/ TSX275 load which shot right at 1.0" @ 100yds. We loaded these for a Maine Black Bear Hunt and never used them so I pulled them. I may just re-load them up and call it it good. Probably have to change COL though to avoid same crimp location.

[Hoot]

Ok thanks. I was getting 2165fps actual chrono avg out of his barrel with the 35.4 LG/ TSX275 load which shot right at 1.0" @ 100yds. We loaded these for a Maine Black Bear Hunt and never used them so I pulled them. I may just re-load them up and call it it good. Probably have to change COL though to avoid same crimp location.

Certainly is possible. There are many factors that affect velocity. Let me calibrate QuickLoad's specs for Lil Gun's behavior based upon your experience with the 275 TSX and re-calculate. Do you recall the temperature and more importantly the COL when you got those chrono readings? QuickLoad can be fine tuned to your results once they are known and then it is much less a prediction and more of a certainty.

Hoot

[Hoot]

Ok thanks. I was getting 2165fps actual chrono avg out of his barrel with the 35.4 LG/ TSX275 load which shot right at 1.0" @ 100yds. We loaded these for a Maine Black Bear Hunt and never used them so I pulled them. I may just re-load them up and call it it good. Probably have to change COL though to avoid same crimp location.

Certainly is possible. There are many factors that affect velocity. Let me calibrate QuickLoad's specs for Lil Gun's behavior based upon your experience with the 275 TSX and re-calculate. Do you recall the temperature and more importantly the COL when you got those chrono readings? QuickLoad can be fine tuned to your results once they are known and then it is much less a prediction and more of a certainty.

Hoot

FWIW, getting 2165fps out of the 450b using the 275 TSX and 35.4gr of Lil gun yields a chamber pressure of 57.5k psi at the Barnes specified COL of 2.225! I realize that is a bolt action but dayum! If your 16yr old can take them, he can take any of the previous loads that I listed. More to come once I crunch the new numbers for the 245.

Hoot

[Hoot]

Really need those two requested pieces of info before I can crunch the new numbers. FWIW, I've loaded over 5 pounds of Lil Gun in my 20" 450b, including pushing the 275gr XPB and never got velocities that fast for such a light charge. Was that from a new, unbroken-in barrel or something? I ask because i have to jack up the behavior parameters of Lil Gun, way further than i have ever needed to do in order to get that 2175fps for only 35.4gr charge pushing the 275 TSX. My gut feeling, which I trust a lot, is saying Tilt! Al, any opinion of this?

Hoot

[cljohnson24]

Temp was mid July so I 'd say 70-75 degrees as a guess. COL was 2.225" per Hogdon's load data. Hornady case, Rem 7.5 primer. 35.4gr of LG .476 crimp. and was right at 1". According to my notes and recollections, it felt softer than the factory FTX & and Win XP 250 Loads by a noticeable amount.

[cljohnson24]

Is an 18.5" Savage Wolverine with 1:24 twist. Has had over 100 shots easily through it. The primers ALL looked great, not too flat, no cratering and no sticking bolt lift. FWIW there was no Barnes data when I loaded those in 7/2020. The Hodgdon site still shows 35.4gr LG as max...and it definitely had no overpressure signs n the Savage Wolverine or another 22"Ruger American that I ordered from Randy's in Bad Axe back when the craze began in Michigan.
I still have the fired brass/primers from when I worked it up and zeroed it in.

[cljohnson24]

Correction...crimp was actually .475"
Here's my final notes that I retained after settling on this load for our Bear Hunt that Sept.
FWIW - I was only 80 fps above Hodgdon's listed velocity with no sudden jumps from the 34/34.5 gr loads,(which I attributed to case/primer differences as Hodgdon specs WSR/Starline brass).

Barnes 275TSX - Hodgdon Book Load
Hornady Cases trimmed to 1.690”
Rem 7.5 Primer
Crimped to .475”
COL=2.225”
35.4 LG(Hodgdon Max Book)= 2165fps avg ES 57/SD28 5 shots
Nice 1" group at 100 yds in both guns. Same recoil as factory FTX 250.
Pretty soft with Brake and stays above 2000fps to 50 yds.

"Quick tip: 275 XPB/TSX, 40gr Lil Gun, again COL that almost buries the groove (COL 2.22x?)and .475 taper down into it. Really accurate and somewhere in the vicinity of 2200fps from my factory 20" upper. -Hoot"

[cljohnson24]

The quote from you Hoot was in my notes, I do wonder why Barnes has their Max with 275 TSX at 33.1 gr of Lil Gun as Max now yet Hogdon lists still at 35.4gr as Max still at 36,200psi. I don't know how Quickload comes up with 57k psi unless something isn't right? But either way I truly appreciate the insight and advice. Did it offer anymore info using the 18" barrel and 1:24 twist?

[Hoot]

The quote from you Hoot was in my notes, I do wonder why Barnes has their Max with 275 TSX at 33.1 gr of Lil Gun as Max now yet Hogdon lists still at 35.4gr as Max still at 36,200psi. I don't know how Quickload comes up with 57k psi unless something isn't right? But either way I truly appreciate the insight and advice. Did it offer anymore info using the 18" barrel and 1:24 twist?

The 18" barrel is a good compromise between the popular 16" (mortar) barrel and my favorite, the 20" (rifle) barrel. This caliber is amazingly forgiving of variations in reloading technique as well as actual recipes. With over 2k reloads under my belt, some good choices and some bad, I've never seen it go beyond about a 3" group at 100 yds. In my book, that equates to minute of deer regardless of recipe. So, you won't go wrong pushing those 245's over 35.4gr of Lil Gun, though you can do better. Think about it. It takes 38gr of Lil Gun to reproduce the factory 250 FTX ammo velocity. The 245 is only 5gr lighter, so why would it take so much less powder than that? I'll stop now...

I personally would not reuse the pulled down loads without running the cases back through the sizing die. You can remove the decapping stem and not disturb the charges in them. Resizing is important in terms of neck tension. In the case of the 450b, you want all the neck tension that you can get, short of gluing the damned bullets in and even that was once discussed here, believe it or not.

Let us know how the youth hunt went. Remind your 16yr old that good stopping power is no substitute for good shot placement. Even with my 450b in the field, I've passed up shots that I didn't feel would be ethical to take.

Good Luck!

Hoot