Fyi, all about crimping..

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Fyi, all about crimping..

Postby wildcatter » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:07 pm

FYI..

When I have Tapered Crimped our cartridge and on purpose, not put powder into the cartridge and fired the primed case, the bullet will travel 3"-8" down the bore. Realize that if you drive a bullet into the bore, to these depths , with some sort of a ram and a heavy duty hammer, well, let's just say you've got your work cut-out for you, to do so.

Today while in the Lab, experimenting with stuff, I put my version of the LeGendre Side Crimp, unto the cartridge. Now, I put on a much deeper crimp than I've seen others here do. I first taper crimp, then I put on enough crimp to visibly see the crimp area on the bullet, if it's then pulled for examination. My crimp is deeper, because I open up the four slits in the crimping sleeve, about twice the size than they are from Lee.

Now for the FYI.. So there I was, up on the Klondike, being charged by a Huge, Burly, Highly Angered, Big Foot, who is squarely in my sights, trigger slack has already been taken out of the heavy loaded 450 Bushmaster, when all of a sudden....Ok, that's the wrong story.. And asides, twas only BayouBob and the Mt.Du man, only trying to scare me, but I wasn't scared at all, until they got out of the suit..

But I did fire a primed case, without powder today, and the bullet didn't even budge from the case, not any at all...hummmmm..t
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Re: Fyi, all about crimping..

Postby pitted bore » Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:33 am

T-
A good thought-provoking post, and your observations are particularly relevant to the problems of getting ball powders to ignite properly.

Primers have a lot of energy. It's amazing that a shotshell primer can push more than an ounce of lead out of a 12-gauge 30-inch shotgun shotgun barrel that is pointed uphill.

Here are some questions, not in any particular order, about your observations.

1) After you have a bullet stuck 3" to 8" down the bore, what's your technique for getting it out? Do you push it back to the chamber, or forward out the muzzle? Any special techniques to help do this without damaging things, such as putting oil or grease in the bore, using a wood or metal rod, using a big hammer, lots of lighter taps or big whops, etc.?

2) What primer(s) were you using for these trials?

3) What bullet(s) were you using? I'm curious about the bullet diameter relative to the bore size, to evaluate what might happen in a slightly tighter bore, for example the GM pistol barrel mentioned on another thread. It might also make a difference regarding the ability of the crimped case to hold a larger vs. smaller bullet. A couple thousandths here could make a big difference. Bullet weight is an obvious factor, since the primer has to work harder against the inertia of a heavier bullet.

4) When the bullet traveled down the bore, did this happen in a SAAMI standard set up, or in one of your experimental trial custom chambered barrels?


5) Were you using new, unfired brass, or once-fired brass, or many-times fired? Any annealing?

In some of my exploratory work last fall with a slower ball powder and lighter bullets, I think that the primer may have done most of the work in getting the bullet out of the barrel, judging from the amount of unburned powder cluttering up the barrel, chamber, and case.

Thanks!

-- Bob
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Re: Fyi, all about crimping..

Postby Hoot » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:01 am

Last summer, I had a Click - No Boom event as well. The Primer was dented, but the round did not go off, nor did I hear anything through the ear plugs. When I pulled the bullet back home afterward, everything was sooted from the primer going off but the bullet had not budged one bit. Having powder in there would have helped. :roll:

The point was I only had a taper crimp on that load and it held back the Remington 7 1/2.

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Re: Fyi, all about crimping..

Postby wildcatter » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:29 am

What? The thought of BayouBob and the DU doesn’t just scare you to death? Heck, I was so scared I threw down my gun and ran squealing like a little girl..

Ok, as for #1.. I don’t have any particular direction of pushing it out, but if it’s a hollow-point, it might be better to push it down the bore, which is going to be a serious pain. When this has happened I push it in the direction of the least, over-all resistance, meaning towards the chamber, but not necessarily. I will use a rod of some strength, 7/16th Drill Rod and a big hammer, works nicely #2.. I usually always use the Magnums and of course the 7½’s are the hottest, but the test of the other day was using cci-450’s. #3..As to the bullets size, I’m thinking that this probably doesn’t matter much, as the bullet is now swagged to the bore, making all of them the same internal size, except for maybe the bearing length.

To answer Hoots assertions.. No real answers here, as I’ve seen the same, but maybe a subjective observation or two might be helpful. We are seeing production standards in primers, being degraded. Some of this is from the panic of catching up and some of it is from the pressures of the Green Movement, regulating our guys to use sub-standard components or difficult to use ignitable chemicals. In any event, we’re seeing multiple, primer ignition spikes on the computers, with most of today's primers. The old stuff just does not do this. If Hotness is not a concern, Federal is still making them the old way and is the most reliable, in our test. But, when trying to ignite lots of slow burning powders, in very cold conditions, a magnum is needed and I use remmies 7½ and they, for the most part and are really very good. However, warm weather and faster powders (lil-gun and faster), any primer works well and the federal is really great, in these conditions.

..t
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Re: Fyi, all about crimping..

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:47 pm

If Bayou Bob and DU dressed up as a Yetti and ran at me, I would just think it was my Aunt Nelda.
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Re: Fyi, all about crimping..

Postby BayouBob » Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:19 am

Hey, I have an alibi. I was dodging cottonmouths in the swamp trying to introduce another boar hog to Thumper!
My Daddy was wrong when he said: "When a man turns 60 he ought to be able to trade his testicles in on a new set of teeth." Oatmeal and soup don't sound too bad.
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Re: Fyi, all about crimping..

Postby gunnut » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:11 am

I'll witness to this! If you ran into WC in the woods at night, It would be very scary even with out his yetie suit! :lol:
And the fact that his side crimp eliminates bullet jump. :shock:
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Re: Fyi, all about crimping..

Postby MOUNTIN DU » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:42 am

:shock: :? :| :oops: ... :mrgreen:
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Re: Fyi, all about crimping..

Postby MOUNTIN DU » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:51 am

:? that's some scary stuff! :| the bullet getting stuck too! :D
...actually i never stuck one before :roll: but i'm sure i've been close. the only experience i've had with a stuck bullet was in a 4" 357mag revolver :oops: a friend brought it over with a hardcast 158gr slug stuck about 1" past the forcing cone. a .350" brass rod drove it out after removing the cylinder and swing arm.
:shock: definitely not something i would want to have to deal with in 450bm :|
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Re: Fyi, all about crimping..

Postby BD1 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:34 pm

I'm a big fan of a good crimp with most everything I load. I want to know that my OAL stays where I set it, and I want to know that I'm not starting anything down the bore until I've got the big ball of gas on it's way for sure. For a better explanation, read the thread at the link below, particularly post #10 by Larry Gibson in which he quotes a Handloader article on the subject of SEE. I'm not sure that SEE is an appropriate label for what occurs, but the description in the Handloader article lays out the basics of what I believe is going on in these events.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=110702

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