Message from Wildcatter

[wildcatter]

Ok, Now that I got another laugh at those pics of my G-Kids work, I have a small rant and I may need some straightening out, here goes..

6.8 SPC & 6.5 Grendel on Elk and Moose.

Now then, my side of the fence comes as a PH for well more than 25years and I've been a Ballistics Engineer for well most of that, wherein Terminal Ballistics is my Game. I'd didn't want to chase wounded critters over the next range, trying to recover them. Meaning the 270 Winchester can kill, but the reason it's all but a dead cartridge is because if you do shoot a Muley or bigger, and it runs for 3 minutes before succumbing to the effects of the bullet (an all too recurring problem with the 270 win), it may take two days before you see that animal again. And by that time it may have rotted (prolly).
Now then, if the 270 win (made by necking down an -06 to ,270) is all but dead, because it won't readily kill anything, why is the 6.8 SPC better? the 6.8SPC is a 270 Win-very Short.

As for the 6.5 Grendel on the bigger critters. Take the bigger case (6.5x55 Swedish Mauser, which is a kinda-sorta, re-necked 308win) and hands-down, very much more capable than the 6.5 Grendal. I own a 6.5 Swede and have a great story that Illustrates the problem I'm trying to talk about.

So, My Dad and Baby Brother are on a moose hunt. They have a Moose hemmed up, at 300 yds, using a well known moose killer bullet, in the 6.5x55, in a marsh. My brother is shooting the Moose, for 11 hits on the shoulder, where-in they can see chunks of hide blowing off the shoulder, and on final inspection, all shots were in the Kill-Zone. The moose, when hit, would take a step and then resume eating. It wasn't until my Dad, with one shot from his Garand, using 220gr-RN bullets, ended the situation.

Now, don't get me wrong, the 22lr can and does kill everything on the planet. I myself, in my more crazy younger years as a kid, have killed a fully grown moose with the 22lr and dozens of whitetails. But, I'm NOT recommending the 22lr for moose or anything else. Just that under the right conditions the puny 22lr can get the job done.

But, If I'm not recommending the 22lr for big dangerous game. What makes the 6.8SPC and or the 6.5 Grendel any better to recommend, under the circumstances I just outlined??

What am I not seeing? And don't answer with.."They are better than your finger".. That's a given and the fact that they are tack-drivers, kinda-sorta, is also a given. Ballistically Speaking what am I missing?? Right now I think the 6.8SPC and 6.5 Grendel are Irresponsible for Elk/Moose, even though some, on the other Channels declare 300yd kills. What say you?

Again, in a full-blown survival situation, use your 22, or 6.5 or 6.8. But if you've got to worry about animal recovery, over the next range or that the critter might just stomp a Mud-Hole in you..you might want to use something else??

..t

[Texas Sheepdawg]

LOL. I don't know who's using their 6.5 _________ (fill in blank) on Elk or Moose and I would be one of the first to object. That is, unless the person had no other options. And even then, I would expect them to be a Chris Kyle level marksman.
I own a 6.5 Grendel and it's a shooter. It's deadly accurate and a decent medium range rifle for coyotes and "TEXAS" sized deer and critters. It's probably a darn good choice for sniping those towel headed goat lusting ISIS morons too.
However. It is my personal belief that should I decide to take any critter that would be the size of a Elk or a Moose.... I've got two choices. My 450 Bushmaster or my 30-06. I would have listed my 7mm RemMag as first, but I sold it this year.
I built my 6.5 Grendel specifically for Coyotes and South Texas deer and maybe an occasional piggie. I would probably never attempt to shoot at anything bigger than a mule deer with my Grendel. Unless it's a SHTF scenario.

[wildcatter]

LOL. I don't know who's using their 6.5 _________ (fill in blank) on Elk or Moose and I would be one of the first to object. That is, unless the person had no other options. And even then, I would expect them to be a Chris Kyle level marksman.
I own a 6.5 Grendel and it's a shooter. It's deadly accurate and a decent medium range rifle for coyotes and "TEXAS" sized deer and critters. It's probably a darn good choice for sniping those towel headed goat lusting ISIS morons too.
However. It is my personal belief that should I decide to take any critter that would be the size of a Elk or a Moose.... I've got two choices. My 450 Bushmaster or my 30-06. I would have listed my 7mm RemMag as first, but I sold it this year.
I built my 6.5 Grendel specifically for Coyotes and South Texas deer and maybe an occasional piggie. I would probably never attempt to shoot at anything bigger than a mule deer with my Grendel. Unless it's a SHTF scenario.

FYI Dawg,

The -06 and 7mm mag Does Not Kill anywhere near as well as the 450b, Just saying..

..t

[kottke_35]

The 450 kills well for sure but I'm not about to put down any other cartridges either. I've never seen a properly placed and constructed bullet from a 7mm remington magnum fail to put down an elk. Same to be said for the '06. With that said I usually turn to my 338 for just about all my big game needs, when I'm not toting the 450 that is.

B.

[Texas Sheepdawg]

The 450 kills well for sure but I'm not about to put down any other cartridges either. I've never seen a properly placed and constructed bullet from a 7mm remington magnum fail to put down an elk. Same to be said for the '06. With that said I usually turn to my 338 for just about all my big game needs, when I'm not toting the 450 that is.

B.

Agreed. EVERY deer that I've shot with a 7mm it was bang-flop...DRT. My 30-06 is a bang-flopper too. Unfortunately, I've not been able to afford a deer lease in 5 years so my deer/hog hunting has been limited to just on my land. And it's been a very rough 5 years on my place. With the drought as bad as it is, my creek bottom dried up and so game traffic has changed and the deer just don't seem to be using our creek bottom anymore. I haven't seen a Hawg sign in three years, even with my feeder out there. My point is that I've yet to even put my 450B crosshairs on a deer or hog. I've shot at coyotes with it but I always shoot over them or they are hauling arse through the cedars. I have blown up a few cedar trees though LOL.
But I have EVERY confidence that my 450B will be just as effective as my other rifles at the ranges I'm comfortable shooting at. I just haven't been given the opportunity.
Yet.

[texrider]

I've got a 6.8, but don't see using it on anything bigger than I have locally. But given the opportunity to hunt bigger game, at least I have something that would do the job.

[wildcatter]

And one more thing, as a Tribute to our Hammer-Mechanics.. Don't get me wrong I Love Hammer-Mechanics, because I-R-1-2!

There are some here, that can teach this guy a thing or three..

..t

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC2Ad3k3kgg

[wildcatter]

The 450 kills well for sure but I'm not about to put down any other cartridges either. I've never seen a properly placed and constructed bullet from a 7mm remington magnum fail to put down an elk. Same to be said for the '06. With that said I usually turn to my 338 for just about all my big game needs, when I'm not toting the 450 that is.

B.

Boy-O-Boy I have and that's many-many times over. The last Elk I saw hit was a pure chest shot and a 7mm mag, using a super-Elk-Killer bullet. I was 100-150 yards looking at the Butt. The shooter was broadside and when he poked it, I saw steam coming out both sides of the animal, it never quit eating and finally just keeled-over. This is but one example, I can list many more and deer? The -06 is barely adequate. again don't get me wrong a 22lr does work, but common!

As for your 338, I've been using them since 1964 as a kid. and is really a good choice for you, because it isn't until you get to the 338 win-mag, that you start to see the "Bang-Flop", with any kind consistency.

These are the very reasons I made the 450b, was to guarantee "Bang-Flop"! I think there are MANY here that will attest to the prowess of the 450b under most conditions using ANY 45 cal. bullet (however some bullets are better than others, given a specific mission profile), not just the properly constructed bullets..

..t

PS... And I'm not putting down anything. But we do have a responsibility to the Fauna. It's up to us Old Hands to point out Pluses and Minuses, to help keep the younger guys from making our mistakes. Whenever I am doing my PH duties. I always tell the 7 mag&-06 shooters to aim high on the neck, just under the head, but still on the neck (the head has too many weird angles and often deflects the bullet.), if they can't make that shot we get closer until they can. Hey, I don't want to have to chase the critters into the next county especially in the mountains..t

[kottke_35]

The 450 kills well for sure but I'm not about to put down any other cartridges either. I've never seen a properly placed and constructed bullet from a 7mm remington magnum fail to put down an elk. Same to be said for the '06. With that said I usually turn to my 338 for just about all my big game needs, when I'm not toting the 450 that is.

B.

Boy-O-Boy I have and that's many-many times over. The last Elk I saw hit was a pure chest shot and a 7mm mag, using a super-Elk-Killer bullet. I was 100-150 yards looking at the Butt. The shooter was broadside and when he poked it, I saw steam coming out both sides of the animal, it never quit eating and finally just keeled-over. This is but one example, I can list many more and deer? The -06 is barely adequate. again don't get me wrong a 22lr does work, but common!..

..t

But it did keel over ... Again, it didn't fail. The elk died. I've had or seen several elk bang flop with both the cartridges that you mentioned. The only elk I've ever seen make it away was a leg shot with a 7mm 175 grain federal blue box lead bullet and a front on brisket shot with a 338 win Mag with a 250 grain corelokt bullet. Both elk were not properly hit and were lost. Hence the reason I use super-Elk-Killer bullets, Barnes ttsx and Federal premium Trophy bonded tip and trophy copper bullets. Some times I use a swift a frame or the Nosler accubonds which have done well too. Have not had a properly hit elk or deer run more than 50 yards. '06 not adequate for deer? :/ The 450 bushmaster is a profound killer, the deer I shot last year was hit so hard it collapsed her trachea, she ran 35 yards heart shot bleeding like a stuck hawg. I love my bushmaster, but it's not the only good killer out there. Everyone has there own opinion and I respect that. I just voiced mine, take it for what it's worth....

Respectfully
B.

[texrider]

If you haven't seen this video... Just shows some animals have strong instincts to just keep going.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okn_OS9twok