BANG FLOP!!

[wildcatter]

BANG FLOP!!

So, one of our guys just took it on the chin with the above Statement.

Seems the Mark is a New Gun-Shop Owner (somewhere in Idaho), Trained by The Marine Corps, as an Armor.

Our Member, made the Bang-Flop statement, about our chosen poison, the 450 Bushmaster. To which he was Excoriated (a Hoot word, although this one has four syllables) Profusely, and ran out of the shop!

Seems the Mark is so well trained that he can quote Newton's Third Law and insists that if we could actually Bang Flop an animal, and he insists this is impossible, the forces on the shooter would recoil him into the next county.

But, I don't want to give away the answers, so let's see if we can answer the Question for some of our less experienced Members.

So, Please, what are the answers, there are many? Why is this particular Marine wrong in his assertions? Newton is right, but there is a bigger picture here, because we really do Bang Flop our critters, so why is he so wrong??

..t

[rohk]

It isn't about energy, never has been when dealing with guns. It's about wound channels and temperary cavity wounds. To many for far to long have held on to the myth that energy kills when talking guns.

If I build a ping pong gun that develops 10,000 ft/lbs do you think this guy would use it to try and stop a charging rhino? Lol.

[Hoot]

"Wherest goeth the CNS, so goeth the body." My dad demonstrated that this past deer season. Deer stepped out on the logging trail at 130 yds, walking away. It turned to look back over it's shoulder and Dad put one well aimed shot through the invertebral foramen. Bang flop.

[BillytheKid]

He would be closer to being correct if the hunter's chest, and the Prey's chest were pressed together, and the round was sandwiched between them and detonated.
But, of course, he is not correct because there is more than one law of physics working.

For the "BANG" side of the equation:

Consider Newton's first law where the hunter's body is at rest. Certainly with my mass, a higher force must be exerted to overcome the at rest inertia to begin putting it into motion in the opposite direction.
Consider Newton's second law where he speaks of acceleration. A projectile does not accelerate instantly. It accelerates over time, and the force acting on a body is inversely proportional to it's mass. Since my body has much more mass than the projectile, it is the projectile that will accelerate to high speeds. Also consider the launching of a projectile out of an AR is part of a variable mass system that includes movable buffer weights and where mass is even lost due to bleeding gasses to operate the mass of mechanisms. What "opposite" force remains is spread over a relatively wide area of the shoulder by the flare of the butt-stock, and the hunter is not blown into the next county.
Continuing with Newton's first law, where (hopefully) the body mass of the prey is standing still, and will require a much larger force to overcome it's at rest inertia and actually push it away.
Continuing with Newton's third law, because of the prey's at rest inertia, it is actually pushing against the body of the projectile (opposite direction), and is pushing against the projectile with equal force. Since acceleration and mass are inversely proportional, the prey, also, will not be blown into the next county.
Continuing with Newton's second law, we no longer have acceleration forces on the projectile and we no longer have a variable mass system, but we now have the projectile as (basically) a constant mass system, and an Impulse occurs where the force of the projectile acts over a very short amount of time on a relatively small part of the body of the prey.

For the "FLOP" side of the equation:

The net force of the impulse caused by the projectile's impact on the body of the prey creates a stultifying dysfunction between the synapse and the axon.
Newton's law of gravity takes over.

Bill

[wildcatter]

It isn't about energy, never has been when dealing with guns. It's about wound channels and temperary cavity wounds. To many for far to long have held on to the myth that energy kills when talking guns.

If I build a ping pong gun that develops 10,000 ft/lbs do you think this guy would use it to try and stop a charging rhino? Lol.

"Wherest goeth the CNS, so goeth the body." My dad demonstrated that this past deer season. Deer stepped out on the logging trail at 130 yds, walking away. It turned to look back over it's shoulder and Dad put one well aimed shot through the invertebral foramen. Bang flop.

Father Knows Best, you two are all over it, keep it up. I'll wager we get more than a dozen suggestions. As far as energy goes, the Pros quit using it in the labs, it doesn't tell the story. The Sales guys are still using ft/lb energy, it sells. I loved the Ping-Pong ball comparison..

..t

[wildcatter]

He would be closer to being correct if the hunter's chest, and the Prey's chest were pressed together, and the round was sandwiched between them and detonated.
But, of course, he is not correct because there is more than one law of physics working.

For the "BANG" side of the equation:

Consider Newton's first law.....

For the "FLOP" side of the equation:....

The net force of the impulse caused by the projectile's impact on the body of the prey creates a stultifying dysfunction between the synapse and the axon.
Newton's law of gravity takes over.

Bill

Way to go Willie, we still have a ton more to consider..

..t

[Gruger]

In short:

It's not the BANG that Flops the deer, it's the OOF!

[Texas Sheepdawg]

I hear the bang..... I see the flop.
Who could possibly argue?
You guys over-analyze.
That's why I like you...
-Texas Sheepdawg

[bigboreshooter]

i believe that our bullet does the same thing as a Taser, wich is definetly a bang flop, It is just such an extreme shock to the nervous system that the brain shuts down before bleeding occurs. The first buck I ever shot was hit right in the spine above the heart, .300 win mag sighted in for 200 yards he was at 20 yards, instant death and not a step taken. total bang flop

[wildcatter]

i believe that our bullet does the same thing as a Taser, wich is definetly a bang flop, It is just such an extreme shock to the nervous system that the brain shuts down before bleeding occurs. The first buck I ever shot was hit right in the spine above the heart, .300 win mag sighted in for 200 yards he was at 20 yards, instant death and not a step taken. total bang flop

That's very interesting and a Taser has no inertia, yet it Bang Flop'em with regular ease..

..t