450Bushmaster.net

This is a fun Video and for you guys already into this, well, you won't learn much. But I see Barnes has adopted my method of setting Milk Jugs up for testing.

As we have discussed, this is only important if you use a Standard to compare against. In other words, a specific 338 Win Mag loading, well known for its superior performance on say Moose, well, you might want to set up some jugs as shown or in some other of the fine fashions I've seen here, and test for all manor of parameters. Then when you want to pick a bullet for our 450 and run a test "Similar" to the 338's, you'll know in a hurry if the chosen 450 bullet will accomplish the task you want it to do, especially, as in this example, is my chosen .452" bullet OK for Moose, because you've compared it to a "Known Killer". Or, If you want to hunt squirrels with the 450 and have chosen say, 185 Hollow-Heads, it might be tough to find a varmint bullet to compare against, again, in other words..The explosive effects you might be looking for, in the .452 Bullet, will go far and away 'BEYOND" the effects one can find in a 6mm +- go fast bullet and the water jug tests will readily reveal the explosive effects comparatively, for the .452-185's to 6mm varmint grenades.

Even though we prolly have only one Mouse Killer here (TSD), one can Comparatively Test bullet performance, well before the hunt.

Post Script.. Using this method I have, for me, eliminated most (But not all) bullets intended for the 45 colt, when the mission was for a Moose type animals, because of under penetration problems. I did this well before the hunt and with Milk Jugs..

..t

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1NCGOm5 ... ZwBg#t=130

PS.. I am about to go into Custom Production, converting our barrels to a rifle length gas system. You'll be able to hand load to far greater Performance (making use of far more available powders, like say 4227-1680, etc) and still use the factory fodder and Lil-Gun Powders (Now that's a trick). You won't hit the short stroke syndrome, from pumped-up lil-gun loads. Who is interested in putting a Corvette in their Garage?? ..t

Tell us more WC, Please...

jerdebson wrote:Tell us more WC, Please...

Hey Jer-the-Bear,

There are two main topics here, which do you want me to discuss and how about a trial question. As for Milk Jugs, I started the guys down that path, many Moons ago, and many took it further and better than I. When some of these guys recommend a bullet for a particular mission, they really know what they are talking about.

About Mission Definition, we have so many bullet choices, it's very important to define your Mission, what you are up to and what you want the bullet to do in relation to that Definition. This Jug test thingie, can be very helpful, when trying to make such decisions..

..t

Tim, I have been following you Hoot and TSD, among others , since I got here. I am shooting factory for the time being. I bought 500 Hornady 230 gr. FMJFP per TSDs recomendations. I am limited on podwer for the time being, but personally I want to load the 230s to handle most any need that may arise. I believe from you above mentors that it will do most of what I want to do with the 450. I will look into the 225 gr Hornady that Hoot loves for medium size game requirements. I may want a 275/325 gr for tougher applications in the future but that will come later.

Relocating the gas port seems to be one of the steps being done to achive a more powerfull state using the 450, but then won't shoot factory or milder loads. So that is why I want to know more about your above mentioned mods.

May we have more Please?

jerdebson wrote:Tim, I have been following you Hoot and TSD, among others , since I got here. I am shooting factory for the time being. I bought 500 Hornady 230 gr. FMJFP per TSDs recomendations. I am limited on podwer for the time being, but personally I want to load the 230s to handle most any need that may arise. I believe from you above mentors that it will do most of what I want to do with the 450. I will look into the 225 gr Hornady that Hoot loves for medium size game requirements. I may want a 275/325 gr for tougher applications in the future but that will come later.

Relocating the gas port seems to be one of the steps being done to achive a more powerfull state using the 450, but then won't shoot factory or milder loads. So that is why I want to know more about your above mentioned mods.

May we have more Please?

Ok, the short version first, don't want to bore (every pun intended) anyone. And keep in mind, this is for entertainment purposes only and reloading for better bullet speeds, WILL increase pressures, and for safety reasons, great caution MUST be exercised, by the reloader, irrespective of any, So-Called, Performance Enhancement System.

There is a "WALL" of sorts, for lack of a better phrase, that we come up against, when we try to pump up the loads, using traditional powders, for the 230gr fmj's, it's at about 2500fps +-.

This Wall is achieved when using powders with burning ranges of Lil-Gun, 2400, blue dot, ect.

The wall occurs in the form of "Short-Stroking" of the action, when liberal amounts of powder are applied, usually done to reach the upper end of the performance scale.

What happens, is because of the Low-Pressure SAAMI Specs. (in my opinion), what was needed, was a carbine length gas system to facilitate the action working at the factory pressures. BBUUUTTTT, the problem is for the more adventuresome reloader who wants more speed out of their bullet, the pressures would rise to the point wherein the action would start to function, before the case released from the chamber, thus holding down the speed potentials and certainly not allowing for the slower powders to become efficient, because of the Wall. And at theses Wall type pressures, using traditional powders, it is often reported here, that max pressures weren't yet achieved and abundant "Short-Stroking" was witnessed and all because the action was opening to soon, hence the "Wall".

With a gas length system, designed the way I do it, I reload beyond the normal Wall and the action will work Great and the really great thing is that my design, still functions Factory Fodders, to boot!!

Now, it true that the standard system will function more reliably with Squib type loads than my system does, but then I am after far different Fish to Fry. I don't give a twit about squib loads, I am not using Bench-Rest Bullets looking to squeeze every miniscule MOA out of the gun! No, what I want to hunt (which has a kill-zone of 18" to 36"), I want it to die and I mean right smack now. I want to absolutely assure "Bang-Flop" even if I only shoot off the tail of the critter, which has happened and caused the pelvis to completely shatter, severing both Femoral Arteries and thus witnessed an incredible "Bang-Flop"!

By using more normal amounts of the slower powders, the pressures do drop, allowing you to put more powders in, to bring the pressures back up to a more normal range and thus raising the bullet speeds.

With this system and with the slower powders, I have seen 230gr bullets go beyond 2800fps plus, without pressure signs, if careful and safety minded loads are made (You Must do your Due Diligence, with the singular eye on Safety, reloading is Dangerous). And the best part is, when I shoot factory loads, they run without a hitch!

Now, I ask you, what does 2800fps + sound like for a 230gr FMJ? The water shot I use, at 20ft, which causes a FMJ-FP bullet to squash out like a mushroom, but penetrate like MAD. It is my Go-To load for Dangerous Game. With the prices of FMJ's we can shoot like there was no tomorrow to boot!!

..t

Thanks for the info Tim, I like what you are saying, I have been looking forward to the time this would come to the surface. I will keep close to this thread for further enlightenment.

I have two 6.8x43s for their purposes, I have a 5.56x45 for its, I also have a 6mmAR to cover the rest, not to mention a 20" 450B. A 450 capable of the above is something that interests me very much, Thank You for the info.

wildcatter wrote:...snip...
PS.. I am about to go into Custom Production, converting our barrels to a rifle length gas system...t

Tim did you mean mid-length or rifle length?

Hoot

Hoot wrote:

wildcatter wrote:...snip...
PS.. I am about to go into Custom Production, converting our barrels to a rifle length gas system...t

Tim did you mean mid-length or rifle length?

Hoot

John,

That would be Rifle Length..

..t

Interesting...as always.