Politics and Ballistics

[wildcatter]

Politics and Ballistics is the title of this post and yes they can make strange bed fellows. I have started this thread in part because of something Texas Sheepdawg said about politics and at the time, I thought we had a dedicated posting area.

First of all I'd like to have a prayer for the folks at the Tucson shooting, our hearts and minds are with them.

Something we have too talk about, but shouldn't have to, but we must.

Tucson is just south west of the Mudbug and is in his AO. Had he been at that shooting the results would have been far different, as is true for many of you as well.

Had a 450b been deployed to take out the shooter, over penetration would be a serious problem. So, I would like to open a can of worms and discuss all that I have mentioned, and not worry about any Hy-Jack problems and discuss all that is bothersome in these areas I've just mentioned.

This posting, in part could have been placed in Hoots Bailey-Wick of "Going the Other Way", for one of the things I'd like to address is the over penetration issue.

Fact: Using any of the Hollow-Pointed bullets, in a 450 Bushmaster, that are still expanding at say 300fps (which is true for bullets designed for the 45ACP) are most useful for surgical work in a crowd situation, they will not penetrate the bad guys, saving the good guys, that might also be in the area. They will not reliably penetrate a hollow-core door and go to very fine pieces, when a water-based target is hit. When I line up the water jugs, it doesn't matter that I might be using a 230 or 185gr-HP, they will never make the second jug, in my experience and would make the perfect Home-Defense bullet.

I mention this, because we haven't really handled this in any in-depth fashion, now you know and you will have plenty to comment about and to ask questions over. Politics and Ballistics, are indeed a can of worms and we here know how to fish, right Mt.DU? I only wish the Mudder had been there at the right time, with the right equipment. For he's one, just like you, who knows how to take care of business.

If you want to chime in and vent, nows the time, just keep it clean and respectful as you Gentlemen always are.

Being prepared is no vice. Now, go and Bless your Families..t

[dale]

I'm surprised that someone in there didn't have a concealed weapon. AZ just passed an open carry law, where anyone who can legally own a handgun can carry it concealed. My wife thinks i'm nuts (used to!!!) taking a pistol down to the phx area when i go there for work. I was just telling her that its too bad someone at the tucson safeway didn't have their P94 full of xtp's in their jacket. Things would have been a little different.
The open carry law is one of the smartest things they've done here in a while. It makes thugs think twice before they do something stupid...

[BillytheKid]

So, are the polymer tipped projectiles sitting on top of the SST Hornady rounds considered "hollow points"?

[Al in Mi]

I'm with Dale, maybe somebody there was carrying, but wasn't trained or didn't know how to respond. Then again situations like this happen so fast it can catch everyone off guard, even the trained people.

As far as ammo Catter, when SHTF, you run what you brung so I set my guns up all different. The 10mm Colt I carry in the truck is loaded with 200gr JFP's (doubles as a deer gun when I forget my mighty 410 ) I also carry a 223 carbine with 62gr FMJ's (doubles as my yote rifle) a Kimber Ultra Carry is my primary carry gun and is loaded with the dreaded 230gr Black Talons, house guns are too numerous to mention.

I've never been involved in a shooting, nor ever want to be, but have had to draw a 3 different occasions, two being with knives and one with a bat, all three ran, but I know that I was mentally ready to commit to the next step if needed.

[wildcatter]

So, are the polymer tipped projectiles sitting on top of the SST Hornady rounds considered "hollow points"?

I think, in terms of over expansion, so as to greatly limit penetration, the FTX bullets Are Not a hollow point, in the sense that a dedicated Hollow Pointed pistol bullet traveling at our speeds will over expand and even fragment, giving almost zero penetration, in most mediums. Where as, the FTX bullets are meant to stay together and penetrate well, at our speeds. In order for a 250gr FTX Bullet to make a good home protection bullet, where in, one would not have to worry about shooting through a wall and thereby hurting someone on the other side, we'd have to move that bullet to say something north of 4000fps, to see total destruction of that bullet.

I hope I'm answering the right question. In my original thesis, I opined that a "Pistol Bullet", designed to expand at 300fps (such as the 45ACP using 185 & 230gr Hollow points, might), would come totally unglued at our speeds, thus making it a good candidate for under-penetration requirements, and at the same time, if used in our cartridge, could deliver really great Blunt Force Trauma, without over penetrating, at the same time..t

[BillytheKid]

So, are the polymer tipped projectiles sitting on top of the SST Hornady rounds considered "hollow points"?

I think, in terms of over expansion, so as to greatly limit penetration, the FTX bullets Are Not a hollow point, in the sense that a dedicated Hollow Pointed pistol bullet traveling at our speeds will over expand and even fragment, giving almost zero penetration, in most mediums. Where as, the FTX bullets are meant to stay together and penetrate well, at our speeds. In order for a 250gr FTX Bullet to make a good home protection bullet, where in, one would not have to worry about shooting through a wall and thereby hurting someone on the other side, we'd have to move that bullet to say something north of 4000fps, to see total destruction of that bullet.

I hope I'm answering the right question. In my original thesis, I opined that a "Pistol Bullet", designed to expand at 300fps (such as the 45ACP using 185 & 230gr Hollow points, might), would come totally unglued at our speeds, thus making it a good candidate for under-penetration requirements, and at the same time, if used in our cartridge, could deliver really great Blunt Force Trauma, without over penetrating, at the same time..t

Understood.

Thanks Tim!

[BillytheKid]

It seems that "right wing" radio and tv personalities were blamed from the beginning for the the AZ shooting.

However, if you visit the shooters You Tube channel, besides his rambling and weird videos, he lists the communist manifesto among his favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

[Texas Sheepdawg]

It seems that "right wing" radio and tv personalities were blamed from the beginning for the the AZ shooting.

However, if you visit the shooters You Tube channel, besides his rambling and weird videos, he lists the communist manifesto among his favorites:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10

I am extremely irritated about the blame games and the
Lies. I am extremely politically active. I am a member of
The Tea Party and have been to tons of events and talked
To hundreds if not thousands of folks who believe like me.
NOT ONE PERSON, repeat, NOT ONE PERSON in the conservative
circles or Tea Party rallies has EVER even suggested or incinuated
Or condoned or conspired to commit violence.
Ironically, it is my Progressive and liberal aquaintences who even
Speak of acts of violence that the Right Wing whackos MIGHT commit
as if they know something we don't. It really creeps me out. It makes
me wonder sometimes if their fears are actually secret fantasies fabricated
to further their agenda.
We must all remember that the progressives would like nothing more
Than for a psycho-killer to have ties to conservative political affiliates.
Interestingly, tragically, the last several nut job killers around here in
Texas was that Marxist who flew his airplane into the IRS building
In Austin and that military Doctor who committed his own
Little Jihad down in Waco.
Turns out. This mooncalf in AZ is a left wing whack job on
Steroids.
Go figure. It's gotta be Rush Limbaughs' Fault?
What the hell are these liberal morons smoking?
But that's just my two cents. I could be wrong.
But not bloody likely this round.

[Texas Sheepdawg]

Politics and Ballistics is the title of this post and yes they can make strange bed fellows. I have started this thread in part because of something Texas Sheepdawg said about politics and at the time, I thought we had a dedicated posting area.

First of all I'd like to have a prayer for the folks at the Tucson shooting, our hearts and minds are with them.


If you want to chime in and vent, nows the time, just keep it clean and respectful as you Gentlemen always are.

Being prepared is no vice. Now, go and Bless your Families..t

Tim, I think our conversation took place here at this thread
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1403
For those who might be interested.

[michael5446]

my heart goes out to the victims, especially the little girl, she will never have a chance at a good life...

as far as the lefty media, King B, and all the libs trying to use this to promote their agendas makes me want to puke, arrrg-- people just died in a horrific event and i cannot believe my ears, for petes sake it hasn't even been a full week yet! show some respect... luckily I have the power to turn the dial or turn the power off...
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Had a 450b been deployed to take out the shooter, over penetration would be a serious problem.

maybe, what about something like a Barnes varmint grenade bullet in a 45? could be possible....

just a thought

no reason to cheer this week