HE WHO DRAWS FIRST BLOOD...

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Re: HE WHO DRAWS FIRST BLOOD...

Postby Jim in Houston » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:46 pm

"Yes, I do agree that the rules of landowners' rights are in play here. Yes, I agree that the deer was on the landowners' property at the time the landowner finished the buck. And yes, by LAW, the landowner has the right to keep the animal."

Fortunately, we are a nation of laws, as many of you on this forum truly believe, and when the President departs from this principle, we are the ones complaining the loudest. As you all recognize, the landowner was within his rights to keep the deer under State law. The ethics or morality of what he did is another issue, and I agree that he acted contrary to what we would all consider to be the correct behavior.

This is not an isolated case. My elk hunt ended this year, when my wounded bull crossed onto the neighboring property and I was denied permission to enter that property to follow the blood trail. Unlike, the eleven year-old in this incident, I will be 70 at the time of my next elk hunt, and don't have that many hunts left to me. Nonetheless, after the Ranch's Big Game Manager had exhausted all the good will available and after consulting with the local wildlife official, I gradually came to terms with the fact that I had lost the bull under the law.

It's tough to know what to do here, but pounding on the fact that the kid was treated unfairly, won't change the law, nor would many want the law changed so that hunters could pursue game willy-nilly onto someone else's property. I would make sure that the kid understood the circumstances surrounding the incident, then get him hunting again. He has a long hunting "career" ahead of him.
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Re: HE WHO DRAWS FIRST BLOOD...

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:23 pm

Nobody is asking for a change in law. I am merely pointing out this stingy, moronic attitude of a landowner who clearly had the upper hand on a child and took advantage of it. I'm not demanding that a law be put in place to deprive a landowner of his rights. I'm calling out a selfish bucket head who doesn't have a grasp on what it means to be a true sportsman who respects the efforts of another younger sportsman and instead, behaves in a cruel and greedy way to deprive a youngster of a trophy buck. It's no wonder that Randy Heyrman only has 88 friends on his FaceBook page.
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Re: HE WHO DRAWS FIRST BLOOD...

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:41 pm

"But come on, Randy. There is no law that REQUIRES you to be an asshat. You acknowledged that Kameron drew first blood. You knew that neither Kameron or the deer was on your property AT THE TIME that Kameron drew first blood. And Randy, you have a definitive advantage over young Kameron in that you have your own land, deer stand where you can have other opportunites to harvest deer at your discretion. And how many deer have you killed over your lifespan as compared to an eleven year old boy who has yet to really experience hunting? The mere suggestion of a coin toss to see who should have the deer is ridiculous."
Yes, James what happened with you and your Elk was indeed unfortunate. And I truly sympathize with your plight. But you're an adult and as such, you also have a definitive advantage over an eleven year old boy. Now. Had Randy pulled this stunt on an adult, I would not be as concerned, however, I would still consider him a selfish jerk. The guys that would not let you claim your elk, I feel the same way about them.
As a landowner myself, if a Hunter came to me and asked permission to retrieve an animal that came upon my property after being wounded, there's only a handful of reasons why I would deny them access. And they are as follows.
1. They could not show me proper identification and a valid hunting license.
2. They were under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
3. They shot the animal while it was already on my land and had not previously asked for permission to be on my land.
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Re: HE WHO DRAWS FIRST BLOOD...

Postby LegendInMyOwnMind » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:56 am

Agree Dawg! Shouldn't our priority be keeping the hunting legacy alive? That kid is now tainted because of the juvenile delinquent who had to ruin this child's first buck experience. I hope he's proud of possibly ending a child's hunting over a relatively small buck....
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Re: HE WHO DRAWS FIRST BLOOD...

Postby MarkCO » Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:34 am

I'd say that good parenting (I don't know one way or the other) and education will result in no tainting of the boy at all. The father has an opportunity to teach a valuable life lesson, or two...after all that is one of the benefits of hunting.
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Re: HE WHO DRAWS FIRST BLOOD...

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:24 am

There are several lessons to be learned from this story. I pray that JD guides his son properly through this. Because there's a very wrong message that Kameron could learn from this. I want everyone to understand that I am not opposed to the landowners' rights. But there's a moral and ethics message too. I'll explain later.
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Re: HE WHO DRAWS FIRST BLOOD...

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:19 am

Lessons to be learned.
There are several lessons that should be learned from this sad story.
The most important one is that you need to get to know, very well, the landowners around where you hunt, and try to get on good terms with them BEFORE a situation like this arises. Because the landowners have very clear rights to the wild game on their property, and they have the right to keep you off of their property for any reason, whether you think it's a valid reason or not. Yeah, we may not like the reasons sometimes and we may find their reasonings irrational, but it is indeed, their land and they can pretty much do what ever they want to. While we may not like it, we must respect and accept it. That's why it is important to seek out and meet with landowners surrounding your hunting grounds so that you can establish some sort of aggreement before hand. This is where hunting guides on leases may be invaluable because they usually have a working relationship with surrounding landowners. By meeting with area landowners, you can establish who's going to be cooperative and who's going to be a challenge, and, as in this case, who's going to be a pure, certifiable mooncalf. If you have any uncooperative landowners around you, that might be a good indication that maybe you should take certain precautions to assure that none of your wounded game make it over a property line. (Bring enough gun to get the job done and then some). You may also want to consider setting up your stand or blind on areas of the hunting grounds where you would least likely have to deal with a objectionable landowner. This may be even more important when you are hunting with a youth or less experienced hunter. Another option is not to sign a lease to hunt there at all. Do some research and pay attention to other hunters and their experiences.
So what has Kameron learned? This is where my guts start to twist. Because Kameron isn't the only youngster who has been affected by this. There are other youngsters out there who are watching this story very closely. As a matter of fact, this story was brought to my attention by a concerned youngster in that same state, who is close to the same age as Kameron, who sent me a message alerting me of the Jorgenson's encounter. We have to remember that our youth are watching us very closely and they learn from our behaviour.
So what lesson did Randy Heyrman teach Kameron Jorgenson?
Kameron might have learned that as landowners, we have the power to control everything that relates to our property rights. Kameron might have learned that we can take that responsibility, overreact, and totally restrict access to our land, and we can lay claim to ANY wild game animal that wanders onto our property. We can deny access to anyone who claims that an animal that they wounded, wandered onto our land. We can snatch a buck away from another hunter no matter who they are, red, yellow, black, white,young, old, male or female. We could embrace our powers as landowners, and use them to deprive an eleven year old boy from a deer that he shot on his own land because the deer wandered on to our land. We could do this, and be totally within our rights as landowners. Kameron may have learned this...
And our youth will witness this behaviour. And they will learn from you. And there will be some who grow up and become the same way, believing that it's okay to be an overbearing Prince John who must have everything to himself and it's a God given right to act selfish and greedy.
Then again, maybe Kameron and the others who have witnessed this could learn that there is certainly a case for mercy and good will in certain situations like this. Maybe they will learn how NOT to act.
I'm about to go a little Indian gospel here, so bear with me. You may not agree with me on this and that is your right, but hear me out.
Maybe as future landowners, Kameron and his generation will treat their visitors with more grace and mercy, and with the understanding that the animals belong to no one individual, (God gave us all the animals of the earth for our needs. These are God's creatures). And that they belong to everyone. (If you have a hunting/fishing license, you have a vested interest in all of the game in your state, whether you realize it or not.)
However. You do not immediately own that deer that you just shot. You OWE that deer that you just shot. You OWE that deer a clean kill. And if your shot is marginal, you OWE it to that deer to track him properly and make sure that the deer is taken as quickly and ethically as possible. Once you draw first blood..You Owe that deer your commitment to the best of your abilities, to finish what you started. By drawing first blood and tracking, then following up by recovering and accepting responsibility for the death of that deer, you have then earned that deer and you repay your debt to the spirit of that deer. Your act of drawing first blood is the beginning of a sort of spiritual relationship between you and that deer. And you must follow through to the very end of that blood trail that YOU created. Once you and the deer are finally united together, the circle is complete. The deer is yours. It does not matter that others struck additional blows to the animal after you. In a way, it shouldnt even matter who's land the deer finally rests upon, since deer don't respect, recognize or establish the human's property lines. However, the laws are in the books, and we as humans must follow them. And this is where as a landowner, you should also consider deeper truths in addition to what is written in black and white... Nevertheless, You initiated the bloodletting, establishing a spiritual link that has started the process of taking that animals' life, spirit and flesh. You started the spirit walk. You have chosen that animal's flesh to consume to become a part of you. The responsibility is yours to see it to the end.
And when you finish your tracking and you hold that animal in your hands and consume it's flesh, the circle is complete.
It is my opinion that Kameron Jorgenson completed that circle to the best of his abilities. In spite of all the adversities, his youth, and lack of experience, and one souless obstructionist, finally and for a fleeting moment, Kameron held his deer in his own hands. In the end, Randy should have seen the spiritual significance of this "bonding" and allowed Kameron to claim his deer.
Yeah, Kameron had some help. And the "help" came from Kameron's loving father who did his best to guide his son to do the right thing, and finally the two bullets of a greedy landowner who doesn't even begin to understand that he has violated a spiritual bonding between Kameron and his first deer by not allowing Kameron to fully complete the cycle. No matter what laws have been put in place, Heyrman will never be able to break that spiritual bond between that buck and that boy. The buck belongs to Kameron. The memories of that deer will haunt the both of them for the rest of their lives.
From the sound of it, It is possible that Randy Heyrman may not feel a thing. From what I have taken from this story, I would imagine that Randy Heyrman is about as spiritual as a bag of peat moss. But when you look at the photo of Kameron holding that deer, You can see and almost feel his heart......breaking.
Let's hope that the lesson Kameron takes away from this hunt is a positive one. He and those in his generation and for generations to come will inherit our lifestyle and once we are gone, they alone will dictate the future of hunting.
That nine point buck belongs to Kameron Jorgenson. Period.
If you think that my beliefs on this are silly, thats your right, but if you choose to attack me for it, before you do, ask a Native American who is still dedicated to their spirtual beliefs, how far off base I am.....
Then have them Private Message me. I certainly will take what they have to say to heart.
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Re: HE WHO DRAWS FIRST BLOOD...

Postby Texas Sheepdawg » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:48 pm

My sincere thanks to all of you who have not put a flame thrower to me.
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Re: HE WHO DRAWS FIRST BLOOD...

Postby Jim in Houston » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:59 am

Gee, I was going to give you a hug.

Obviously an area for which you have a passion, as do I after my elk experience. Most concern is that the young hunter fully understand what has happened, and that he get out in the field again to take his "first" deer.
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