Advantages/Disadvantages

[wildcatter]

Off and On, I am inundated with requests for the Relative differences in the various Big Bores. The last two weeks being two of them. With this months sale going on, and with just so many trying to make a decision, I will try to do a decent job. Now, realize that I am prejudice, therefore this thesis should be taken with a grain of Salt, so your help will be necessary. Because I won’t get it entirely right and may forget to add important differences, therefore, add your thoughts. So here goes..

Advantages/Disadvantages
450Bushmaster vs. 458socom


450 Bushmaster: Is a modern High Pressure Rifle Case.
458 socom: Is a pistol case that has not and will not, stand-up to rifle pressures. Ruptured cases are often reported.

450 Bushmaster: Straight Walled Cases, therefore far more Reloading Cycles.
458 socom: Necked Case, therefore stretched necks, case trimming procedures & premature Case Failure, and very expensive to find or replace.

450 Bushmaster: Based on the 284 Winchester & the many 6.5x284 offerings. Re-loadable Case Availability is Ultra High. Depending on the case Manufacturer, we can use either Large or Small Primers. This alone is a Hugh Advantage.
458 socom: Based on the 50AE pistol case. No re-loadable parent case. Availability? Most would say Scarce, to not at all. "Load up on brass when you can find them" is the War-Cry. Starline won't build new brass for the 458s or 50b until they get enough orders for a run, whatever that means. At S.H.O.T., I was told by Starline that the 458/50 runs have been relegated to once a year runs, for some time now, and some years, no Run at all. With the explosion of the 450Bushmaster and its Superior Support, many are crossing over, will this affect availability, time will tell.

450 Bushmaster: Many S.A.A.M.I spec. Factory Loadings and Many More on the way.
458 socom: Wildcat Only. Saami will not spec this out until one of their Client Members steps up to the task. None at this time are even entertaining this event. Cor-Bon is a voting member of Saami and loads for the 458s/50b, the fact that they wont spec-out these cartridges, well, speaks volumes. Is Support Dwindling?

450 Bushmaster: Factory Backing from many Majors, with many others standing in line, with many more coming on yet this year and in the years ahead.
458 socom: No Real Major Factory Backing. Does Rock-River even have more than one Factory Building, they didn't use too, but maybe they do now?

450 Bushmaster: Uses "All" 45cal Bullets .451-.458 @ MidWay alone has 155 in total.
458 socom: Uses .458" bullets "Only" for a total of 51, again @ MidWay.
FYI .500"cal Bullets, 36 total at MidWay & all are designed for pistol speeds and most (not all) will wound/explode on big game, with low penetration at rifle speeds, bullet construction is Critical and are very expensive compared to the 45cal.

450 Bushmaster: Availability; Everywhere, again with Factory and Industry Backing, the future is Assured.
458 socom: Availability; a definite Maybe, and reaching the point of Scarce, same for the 50B.

450 Bushmaster: Cost, are Very Reasonable.
458 socom: Cost twice as much and more, if you can even find any product.

450 Bushmaster: The Big Box Stores always have Guns and Ammo on the Shelves or when out, Next Week’s Shipment is expected to have new stock for the store, meaning, only sporadic and temporary, short term shortages. Hey, the guys are flooding the Stores.
458 socom: The Big Box Stores always have Guns and Ammo on Back Order, again, Availability is a Hugh Problem, and when questioned, they have no idea when New Stock will be forth coming.

450 Bushmaster: Our Future is, Bright, Expansive, and Developing.
458 socom: Their Future is, Questionable for both the .458s & 50b.

And Lastly, yes we can and do use Factory G.I. Magazines. A GI 30 rounder becomes either a 12 or 13 round mag, depending on the Manufacturer. Also, many of 450 Bushmaster "So-CALLED" mere pistol bullets (as some uneducated individuals have called them), make great, cheap, big game bullets, as in Elk, Moose, the Big Bears, Cape Buffalo, or even Elephants, yes two to date, that I know of. Think not, witness the 230gr Military Ball and the Flat Point FMJ's to say nothing of the Absolutely Hugh Plethora of bullets designed for the 460S&W, the 454 Casull, and the various MAGNUM 45cal Black Powder Bullets, all are of the .4515" saami spec. and do not over expand on Big-Game, at our speeds and give Outstanding Superior Penetration! Plus we have the advantage of using the Real Hollow-Pointed Pistol Bullets as very cheap Fragmentation bullets, that won't relatively penetrate anything in the real world and theses are 5 to 10x times and more, cheaper than the Sinter Metal Style, Fragmentation Bullets those other calibers have to use. Anything the 458s can do, we do better and anything the .4515" bullets will do, can-not be done in a 458socom..

Nope, I see no down side to the 450 Bushmaster!! You Make The Call..



OK,

I wanted to be able to send the questioners to read this and your insightful in-put. I am getting so many questions, and most are of the same nature. So, I hope this is not too controversial, for our style of personal respect, but this should keep me from answering the same questions, over and over.

Now, have I forgotten anything or misrepresented the facts? Please add or correct anything I may have messed up or forgotten. Make sure you chime in with any personal incites, suggestions, observations, or opinions. Maybe we can make this a One-Stopping-Shopping experience for the new guys wanting to get into the Big Bore Game and start them on the right path.

Knowledge is Power..t

[BayouBob]

How about "out of the box" accuracy. Don't recall seeing the other big bore AR's being so regularly reported as shooting 1 inch groups out of the box with factory ammo. Reloaders immediately set out to improve every new caliber that comes out. With the 450 we can make it more versatile or more powerful but there isn't much need to make it more accurate!

[bushmeister]

How about "out of the box" accuracy. Don't recall seeing the other big bore AR's being so regularly reported as shooting 1 inch groups out of the box with factory ammo. With the 450 we can make it more versatile or more powerful but there isn't much need to make it more accurate!

Excellent Bob, One of the main reasons I bought one. I'd like to expand on the "Factory backing by majors..." I can go to the three reputable gun shops in my area, and as of last week pick up a BM 16", a 20", and a remington r15 18" version off the shelf. I've never seen a socom or beowulf except online.

[BayouBob]

Right about availability; my little local gun shop even carries the factory ammo. I'm still trying to perfect my reloads so I still need to stock up on factory stuff. The pigs don't seem to mind though.

[wildcatter]

Me too, you guys, I'm out in the serious sticks, but have four shops, all within 30-40 miles of me and they all have Bushy/Remmy guns & Hornady/Remmy ammo. And this is the kind of feed back we need to round out the differences that have already been pointed out? I know there are other thoughts, keep'em coming..t

[BayouBob]

How about just the fact that it is made by Bushmaster? They aren't just a small company that might disappear tomorrow. Even though Alexander and Rock River are fine outfits, think of all the small shops in every industry that just all of a sudden just close their doors. Unless of course the Freedom Group is a front for a Soros group whose interntion is to shut down the firearms industry in America. Come to think of it, their investors were brilliant enough to buy Chrysler!

[JCoop]

It would make the document even more "bullet proof" (pun intended) if you added URLs/sources for the information posted. For example, many 458 case ruptures are reported... where were these reports? Websites? etc.

Remove personal references such as "I" or "we" - personal references make it seem like a personal battle when it's really just the facts speaking for themselves. Example, instead of "At SHOT I was told by Starline..." use something like, "At SHOT, Starline representatives said...."

"Factory backing by Many Majors" - list who they are and that statement will have more impact. Same with the reference to "many SAMMI spec loads".

Good information! And it's nice to see it all in one place.

[wildcatter]

It would make the document even more "bullet proof" (pun intended) if you added URLs/sources for the information posted. For example, many 458 case ruptures are reported... where were these reports? Websites? etc.

Remove personal references such as "I" or "we" - personal references make it seem like a personal battle when it's really just the facts speaking for themselves. Example, instead of "At SHOT I was told by Starline..." use something like, "At SHOT, Starline representatives said...."

"Factory backing by Many Majors" - list who they are and that statement will have more impact. Same with the reference to "many SAMMI spec loads".

Good information! And it's nice to see it all in one place.

Well Said Coop, I'll work on it, because it is just like one stop shopping and needs tweaking. This Thesis is a work in progress and with objective thoughts, like yours, we can make this a pretty darn good thing. Keep up the suggestions and we'll make this the type of objective study, that JCoop and others, have so well pointed out this needs..t

[Hoot]

You have to be careful with anecdotal information.
In Minnesota, there are almost a million hunters and probably more fishermen. We have:
2 Cabelas
1 Bass Pro Shops
13 Gander Mountain
7 Dick's Sporting Goods
Nationally Recognized Ahlman's and Sportsmens Guide
and many many local shops.
Guess how many carry the 450B? Zero. (I called every one in early February)
Guess how many have ammo for it? One. (Ditto)
Last weekend, I went to the state's largest attended gun show at the State Fair Grounds Colosseum in St. Paul. Somewhere between 100 and 200 tables, which is big by Minnesota standards. Thousands of firearms. Hundreds of ARs. Guess how many 450Bs were there? Zero.
At the Bushmaster web site, I looked up every authorized rep they have in Minnesota and called every one of them. Yep, Zero. Some did not even know what I was talking about, which was par for the course with the big chain stores I mentioned above. One fellow had heard of the R15 variant.

So, If I were writing the FAQ, I'd say they are rarer than Hen's Teeth and not doing well. And, by local standards, I'd be correct.

Food for Thought...
Hoot

[Siringo]

Hoot -- Cabelas in Rogers and Owatanna always has 450B ammo. I was also in Mitchell last week and they had it there too. I hit all three of those stores last week and they all had ammo. Most counter folks that I speak with say they will order, but only stock items that move quickly.

I have never seen ammo in Gander. Even if they did -- it would be twice as much as anyone else. They are rapists!