The 6.5 Grendel gets adopted by SAAMI

[Hoot]

I have not read anything on the trials that they conducted. What led them to choose the 95gr Amax over more popular, heavier bullets for the Grendel? Was that in order to hit a minimum specified velocity of 2800 fps? I'm typing this from deer camp and my backup rig is my 6.5 Grendel pushing the 123 Amax at 2600 fps (24" barrel). Obviously, it would run slower on a 20" Hbar, which I assume the military was using in their Designated Marksman program.

They are not in the same league as my 260 Remington, or the other larger cased 6.5s, but then they run on an AR15, not an AR10. If you could neck 450b brass down to 6.5 without getting creases in the necks and shoulders, I bet they would kick the Grendel's butt and still fit an AR15 platform, or has that been tried already? Kind of a 6.5-284 Short.

FWIW, I had the opportunity to shoot a fellow's .260 AR-10 at the range a few weeks ago. A true pleasure to shoot. It jumped less than the 6.5 Grendel through my AR-15. For the life of me, I do not understand why the 6.5 Creedmoor was created. Does it bring a significant benefit to the table over the .260 or the 6.5x55? Or, is it just an opportunity to create a new revenue stream on a gun community, crazed with black rifle fever?

Hoot

[MudBug]

Both the 6.8 and the 6.5G have been purchased by DOD small numbers, but they will never see use as the general issue cartridge for the reasons Tim listed. Yes they perform better, but no enough to justify the HUGE $$$$ it would cost for a full scale conversion.

Personally, I don't think we will see a change until something drastic comes along like caseless ammo (yes I know) or lazers.

Still, I own two Grendels (Had 3 till I replaced the 12" grendel barrel on my T/C Encore pistol with a 22" 6.5x55 barrel) and I love them. my 107 grain Lapua Scenars stay supersonic till about 1200 yards, and once I'm dialed in I can smack a 10" steel gong with it all day long at 800 yards. (the longest distance I can easily get a target up at my shooting spot)

[commander faschisto]

Couldn't DOD just quit floundering around aimlessly and easily fix this problem by finally admitting to a nearly fifty-year-old error in judgement and switch to the AR-10 platform in 7.62 NATO? At least the Europeans knew what they were doing, for a while, anyway. Why are they trying to reinvent the wheel? Being ex-DOD, I can totally understand how stupid ideas (like the 5.56mm) take on an organizational life of their own inside a massive bureaucracy. LtCols are trying to make O-6 and Cols are trying to get that star, and making "their mark" on the organization is how that happens, not by pointing out obvious flaws to the boss. The M-14's irritating quirks could have been solved by getting rid of the natural wood stock and loosening the grip of the front ring. Even if the M-14 was out of the equation, the only real advantage of the AR-15 platform over the AR-10 is the number of 5.56 varmint cartridges that can be carried compared to the 7.62 round for a given ammo load. OK, so we lighten the ammo carriage load, and then proceed to load 'em up with 80-lb. packs full of all sorts of semi-useful crap, and 40 lbs. of body armor. Am I missing something here?

NATO has realized the error of their ways in following the US into 5.56mm la-la land, and are switching to AR-10-based 7.62s as fast as they can find the money to do so. We should follow suit. The new LMT comes to mind.

If you consider that a human target is approximately deer-sized, it should be instructive that .30-cal rounds have been the gold standard for that size "game" at all ranges, for well over a hundred years, and counting. Hello??? In most jurisdictions, it is illegal to hunt deer with a cartridge that starts with the numbers ".22", for a very good reason. Wildcatter needs to work up a 450b necked down to 7.62 and see what it can do!

[Texas Sheepdawg]

And I have a sneaking feeling THAT is just what Tim is doing. Every time he comes out of that lab, his hair is looking more and more like Einstien, and I'm surprised that beard hasn't gotten tangled in a Lathe! LOL

[commander faschisto]

He needs to start taking pre-orders for the new .300 Timbo

[wildcatter]

Couldn't DOD just quit floundering around aimlessly and easily fix this problem by finally admitting to a nearly fifty-year-old error in judgement and switch to the AR-10 platform in 7.62 NATO? At least the Europeans knew what they were doing, for a while, anyway. Why are they trying to reinvent the wheel? Being ex-DOD, I can totally understand how stupid ideas (like the 5.56mm) take on an organizational life of their own inside a massive bureaucracy. LtCols are trying to make O-6 and Cols are trying to get that star, and making "their mark" on the organization is how that happens, not by pointing out obvious flaws to the boss. The M-14's irritating quirks could have been solved by getting rid of the natural wood stock and loosening the grip of the front ring. Even if the M-14 was out of the equation, the only real advantage of the AR-15 platform over the AR-10 is the number of 5.56 varmint cartridges that can be carried compared to the 7.62 round for a given ammo load. OK, so we lighten the ammo carriage load, and then proceed to load 'em up with 80-lb. packs full of all sorts of semi-useful crap, and 40 lbs. of body armor. Am I missing something here?

NATO has realized the error of their ways in following the US into 5.56mm la-la land, and are switching to AR-10-based 7.62s as fast as they can find the money to do so. We should follow suit. The new LMT comes to mind.

If you consider that a human target is approximately deer-sized, it should be instructive that .30-cal rounds have been the gold standard for that size "game" at all ranges, for well over a hundred years, and counting. Hello??? In most jurisdictions, it is illegal to hunt deer with a cartridge that starts with the numbers ".22", for a very good reason. Wildcatter needs to work up a 450b necked down to 7.62 and see what it can do!

10-Trillion "X" 's

[Hoot]

...snip... Wildcatter needs to work up a 450b necked down to 7.62 and see what it can do!

I thought the idea for the 5.56 was to wound the enemy and tie up other enemy troops getting him to the rear. That was based upon a NATO vs Eastern Bloc war. Unfortunately, that doesn't work when the sorry POS' you are fighting just leave their wounded to either die, or put a bomb under them for us to find.

I believe a necked down 450 Bushmaster to 7.62 already exists. It's called the .30 RAR. Unfortunately, too many risk mitigation lawyers had their hand in it's internal ballistics design. Having shot both an FA .308 and 5.56, despite loving the 7.62 caliber, I felt it was harder to control than a 5.56. I would imagine all that technology out there could come up with a better controllable 3-shot burst or FA 7.62 these days. One that the average soldier could control and qualify with. I would be a bigger task to take 200 rounds of the heavier, larger, 7.62 in the field each trip out.

Hoot

[Colohunter]

Another big disadvantage of the 30AR/ 450 is the magazine capacity. The rounds may be much more lethal, but you can't carry as many in a magazine. That means a 200 round load out will require a lot of magazine changes.

Though I don't really see them getting adopted by the whole military, the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, etc, only reduce the magazine capacity by a few rounds. ( I can fit 25 rounds of 6.8 in a magazine the same length as a 30 round 223 magazine.)

[Texas Sheepdawg]

The 6.5 Grendel has 25 Rnd mags too.
Hey Tim, what does ten trillion Xs mean?

[wildcatter]

The 6.5 Grendel has 25 Rnd mags too.
Hey Tim, what does ten trillion Xs mean?

Means I agree ten trillion times..t

On another thought about fewer rounds in the mag. The SOCOM operators always argue that with me, I always win the argument, my response is.."what do you want, thirty, in-effective rounds or twelve totally effective rounds". For every four rounds they take to make a kill or almost, I only need one, and even if it only just wings them, they still die, post-haste..

..t