Problem with W296 powder

[the_mad_rshn]

Well gents,

Took all except for one a part. In all the cases one midium bang on the ground was enough for the bullet to come out. I guess reading all the posts now I see where the problem came from. I am guessing the crimp all the way at the end of the bullet did not do much. Oh well!

Thanks again to everyone. I learnt a lot.
Cheers,
Mad

[wildcatter]

Well gents,

Took all except for one a part. In all the cases one midium bang on the ground was enough for the bullet to come out. I guess reading all the posts now I see where the problem came from. I am guessing the crimp all the way at the end of the bullet did not do much. Oh well!

Thanks again to everyone. I learnt a lot.
Cheers,
Mad

We all have learned allot, thank you for sharing. This is the kind of activity that will make this a great cartridge.

FYI... with my personal side crimp and an enertia bullet puller and against a big heavy chunk of steel, takes 8/10, high hard swings to pull the bullet. Factory rds take 3/4 swings. Very un-scientific but, a good indicator of what's going on..

[BD1]

I agree that this is a classic case of failure to develop enough pressure to light the powder charge. We have a number of things working against us in this case; slow powder with significant deterent coating, small primers, light bullet, not much neck tension(thin case mouth), and a tough chance for a good crimp. I've had better luck with jacketed bullets using H110 in the cut down .284 cases. This allows the use of a large rifle primer, gives better neck tension due to the thicker brass, and I can get a significant crimp, (At least on the 250 grainers). That said, my accuracy has been better with Lil'Gun on all of the jacketed bullets I've tried, and the small primers don't seem to be any issue with LilGun.

The dimensions of the Hornady brass work well with the cast boolits, allowing a .453 boolit to seat and chamber without issues. However, I still wish for the large primer pocket to light the slower powders for cast.

I'm back down in the Low Country of SC, and just joined the only outdoor range within an hours drive. My reloading room is still packed in boxes, but as soon as I get a chance I'll get set up and start back into load development. My goal is still cast boolits in the 300 grain range at 1,800 to 2,000 fps. But I'm playing with the jacketed stuff as well. I rang the 12" 300 yard gong on Saturday with my second shot using the 250 grain FTX's over LilGun. That was satisfying, (and bought me some credibility being the "new guy" on the firing line At least I know I'm good to go for pigs.
BD

[the_mad_rshn]

I wonder how well this cartridge would shoot a No. 7 shot for home defense loaded with H-110;-)

Cheers,
Mad

[pitted bore]

FYI... with my personal side crimp and an enertia bullet puller and against a big heavy chunk of steel, takes 8/10, high hard swings to pull the bullet. Factory rds take 3/4 swings. Very un-scientific but, a good indicator of what's going on..

T-
Thanks for trying the experiment I suggested. It confirms something I've suspected - that your method applies a crimp that really locks bullets into the cases. I don't think I'm going to make much further progress with the 185-grain bullets until I can do something similar.
--Bob

[wildcatter]

FYI... with my personal side crimp and an enertia bullet puller and against a big heavy chunk of steel, takes 8/10, high hard swings to pull the bullet. Factory rds take 3/4 swings. Very un-scientific but, a good indicator of what's going on..

T-
Thanks for trying the experiment I suggested. It confirms something I've suspected - that your method applies a crimp that really locks bullets into the cases. I don't think I'm going to make much further progress with the 185-grain bullets until I can do something similar.
--Bob

Show-nuff Doc, A.K.A., Bad Bob, for you to progress, the side crimp and the 185's are the trick. I did a bunch of development for that bullet in the 45 Pro and 1680 powder, way slower than even 296, I've seen "Lab Speeds" I do not want to quote here. (PM, me and I'll tell ya). Even though we are seeing data far different from the pro and powders quite faster than I'm used too, the 185's should be working really well by now, I suspect that it's the taper crimp that is the major culprit.

Something for you guys, about the LeGendre Side Crimp.. The Lee Factory Crimp Die has a crimp length of about .125". I make mine about half or even less of that. I do it by chucking up the collet and cutting the factory crimp flange back (about .020" or so) from the top of the collet and then trimming the die body and collet back sufficiently enough to cause a very heavy, buy narrow crimp groove, on the outside of the case. After I side crimp I do a light taper crimp as a final step, to make sure there is no flaring that can slow feeding in a dirty chamber.

This Side Crimp is so good and even way better than the std roll crimp, AND, without any of the associated problems that a roll crimp can cause, that I suspect that one day our side crimp will become the std protocol for SAMMI, and then used by all the ammo manufactures, On All Cartridges..

As soon as I can get this pressure equipment on line, I'll do a test, someone here suggested, and I forget who it was, but I'll pressure/speed check the factory loads and then from the same lot, I'll side crimp the factory fodder and re-analogize the data string. Should give us some real good stuff to chew on..

[BD1]

Using the 290 grain lead boolit I designed for the .450B which has a crimp groove sized, and located, to fit my side crimp die which is modified like wildcatters, I cannot pull a loaded round with an inertia puller, or my RCBS collet puller. To pull them I have to run the round up into my rockchucker without a die and clamp vise grips to the bullet, then lower the ram against the vise grips to pull the boolits. It does wreck the boolits, but I just remelt them and cast them again.
Rounds loaded like this have single digit SDs. Unfortunately I cannot get as good a crimp on the jacketed bullets due to the lack of a cannelure with the correct shape and location. If we can decide as a group just where we'd like the crimp to fall, we may be able to convince Hornady to put a cannelure there for us to crimp into.

Another modification that the Lee FCD needs is to have the hard corners radiused where the collet hits the brass. Before I did this I noticed that my brass would develop a definite line, (weak spot?), on both sides of the crimp after two or three loadings. At the 40,000 psi level we're talking for the 450B, brass should last a long time. I don't want to reduce that brass life any more than necessary by using the side crimp.

BD

[Saltner]

This ammunition is structured on a cylindrical case which has a considerable capacity.
As it is structured, the cartridge has a thermobalistic system that is built on a very subtle balance, which stands at the limit of what is commonly defined as "ball stop".
The term "ball stop" means that particular thermobalistic condition in which, at the moment of striking:
- the dust placed near the flash hole begins to ignite
- the pressure begins to rise
- the bullet begins to imperceptibly move forward
- moving the bullet forward causes the internal pressure of the cartridge case to drop sharply
- the combustion slows down dramatically until it almost stops
- the bullet stops at the level of the beginning of rifling
- combustion begins to resume
- the pressure rises again
- combustion progresses, positively influencing the development of the pressure - time curve, and the projectile begins to move slowly
- the combustion of the launch charge reaches a percentage of the original mass such that the projectile is accelerated inside the barrel, until it is expelled from
the same

The phenomenon just described, normally takes a few tenths of a second to complete, but can also take place in times of the order of a few seconds !!!
Anyone who has clumsily loaded the cartridge in question, has experienced on their own skin what it means to cause a ball stop.
In some cases, at the moment of the dog's fall, a dark noise is heard (also perceptible when wearing shooting caps), followed by the roar of combustion.
On the other hand, in other cases, no noise is heard at the moment of percussion and only after a few moments that seem interminable can the roar of real combustion be clearly perceived.
In addition, the ball powders are very difficult to ignite and you need magnum primers !!!

[MOOSE EARS]

As crazy as the above post sounds, I've experienced this bizarre phenomenon. But it was with LilGun...

[Hoot]

As crazy as the above post sounds, I've experienced this bizarre phenomenon. But it was with LilGun...

Ditto, a couple of times in the same range session. It appeared to be the result of inadequate neck tension using 230gr plated bullets. After the second time, common sense prevailed and I quit. Unrelated but in a different range session, I had to abort from too much neck tension. I know that sounds like an oxymoron in this caliber but it can be made to happen. Hint: double stab crimps on 200 XPB's. Was like a controlled (barely) explosion! Again, twice before I stopped and pulled the remaining 48 ladder loads down. That was not a fun evening....

Hoot