Is 450 B really the best?

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Is 450 B really the best?

Postby Smithjdsr » Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:48 am

Don’t get me wrong, I love my Bushy. But, admittedly, part of the reason I love it is because 1) it’s a rifle 2) that is legal in Iowa for deer hunting and 3) is accurate at any range I’m capable of taking a responsible, sportsmanlike shot, 4) and isn’t a “wildcat” so factory ammunition and reloading are accessible to a greenhorn.

I have a beautiful Ruger mod. 77s .30-06, I think today they call it the “Hawkeye” or something, that I really love to carry and shoot. It’s well balanced, nicely finished, slim across the action for carrying & handling, and it has perfect drop at the comb to fit me just right. I’ve carried it for bear in Ontario, elk and deer in Montana, deer in Pennsylvania... but when I get back home to Iowa, it stays in the case because the only way to shoot a deer in Iowa was to sling cannon balls out of a pheasant gun. Then Iowa law changed and “straight wall” cartridges became legal! I honestly can’t afford a $1000 or even $800 lever action rifle to take one shot a year and fill my deer tag (so I didn’t even really consider 45-70, 44 mag, 357 mag levers), but with a reasonably priced barrel (see the BearCreek Arsenal threads) I could build an AR in 450B for well under $500. And I did. And I hunted with it in both Iowa and Wisconsin. And it kills deer with far more ease and accuracy and class than any slug gun could.

But I’m not military or ex-military and, for me, an AR stinks as a hunting rifle. Not nice to carry, heavy, not well-balanced, corners and catch-points sticking out everywhere... So I’ve been looking at bolt-action 450B’s. The Rugers look best- esp the varmint variation with 22” barrel. But Mossberg makes one that runs a good $150 less.

So here’s the dilemma: now Iowa’s considering a law that would allow standard center-fire rifles, including my .30-06. I personally don’t think we need such a law, but if they pass it, I won’t be able to justify leaving that mod. 77 in the safe. Would you choose a 450B over .30-06 if both were legal deer rifles?
John

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Re: Is 450 B really the best?

Postby Hoot » Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:37 am

Smithjdsr wrote:...snip...Would you choose a 450B over .30-06 if both were legal deer rifles?
I can not think of a scenario where a 450b could fill a need that a .30-06 couldn't do and better, even though the 450b, pushing a 200gr XPB, edges out a .30-06 (non +P) shooting the same weight bullet, in TKO. All but one of the deer I have shot and killed, fell to a centerfire 30 caliber rifle. None ran further than I could see them or precisely locate them by ear as they piled up. Add to that, the range advantage of the .30-06 and the choice would be easy if I only could use one or the other. Fortunately, I'm not limited to just one.

Boy, it didn't take IOWA too long to change once "The camel got its nose in the tent." Hopefully that will rub off on your neighboring state to the north.

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Re: Is 450 B really the best?

Postby Smithjdsr » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:19 am

It hasn’t passed yet. Lots of people think it will. And my 450 isn’t going anywhere. Like you said, “fortunately, not limited”. I’ll still load and shoot and hunt 450B. But, if the law passes, opening morning will find me with my .30-06

Yes. I didn’t take long. Tourism $$ I think, same as Pennsylvania allowing semi-autos over the strong objections of their deer hunters. Also, it’s being pushed by 2A, and not hunting, groups. I just think they’re not doing it wisely. We really don’t need .338 win mag, or 7mm mag or... lots of others. But, if guys have them, they’ll use them.

But, it’s not really a “safety” issue if they wrote the law correctly. Single shots, levers, (maybe pumps), and bolt action rifles in the following calibers...(and specify the appropriate ones). They already do so with pistols and straight wall rifles. But, the law making it’s way through committee doesn’t specify.

Northern MN has rifle hunting, doesn’t it? My cousin (the one I’m helping build an AR this summer) intends to hunt with it. I think he’ll end up with either a 450B or a 350L upper. But he can shoot a rifle up there by Brainerd, can’t he?
John

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Re: Is 450 B really the best?

Postby Bmt85 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:42 pm

For me, I would stick with 450B. Main reason is because I’m not a fan of 30-06 performance inside 50yds. My dad used a 30-30 and 30-06 for deer for years. For some reason whenever he hit a deer around 50yds or less (which was most of the time), he would have to track them for a while (100yds or better). He switched back to 30-30, and rarely had one run over 50yds. Maybe it was the type of bullets he was using, they do have more/better options now. Don’t know, but still don’t like the 30-06 at close ranges. Most of the time I don’t need to shoot past 50yds. Even if I had to shoot to 100yds, I would stick with 450B.

Talking about guys using way bigger cartridges on deer than needed reminds me of a guy I worked with years ago. He had a high dollar bolt gun in 375 H&H, had a thermal/night vision scope on it so he could record the kill, and he only went deer hunting! He complained about recoil, but when I told him to run a smaller cartridge, he looked at me like I was insane. :?
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Re: Is 450 B really the best?

Postby Hoot » Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:06 pm

Smithjdsr wrote:...snip...
Northern MN has rifle hunting, doesn’t it? My cousin (the one I’m helping build an AR this summer) intends to hunt with it. I think he’ll end up with either a 450B or a 350L upper. But he can shoot a rifle up there by Brainerd, can’t he?


Yes it does. Basically north of I-94 is rife and south is shotgun. I live in the shotgun zone but have always gone north to hunt, in the rifle zone. Still, there are vast areas of forestation in the shotgun zone where a rifle would be totally appropriate. You can hunt it with just about any caliber handgun, but I'm much more accurate with a rifle. In the rifle zone you basically get two weekends and all the weekdays in between for deer but in the shotgun zone, you usually get either the first weekend or last but not the days in between. 2 days for deer season is stupid, period. Admittedly, the majority of the shotgun zone is agricultural with lots of food and deer. Almost every deer I've ever taken in the rifle zone was on opening morning, when they're still somewhat relaxed. ML season is long and statewide but coming after firearms season is over for a week or two, it can begin the incredibly cold slide down to sub-zero time of the year. I remember going to my in-laws for Thanksgiving dinner and it being -16 F. Hard getting the hot dish from the car to their door, while its still a hot dish. ;)

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